15 replies to this topic

[BSLChrisStoner]

CSN Baltimore / Rich Dubroff:[url] http://www.csnbaltim... ... eedID=6704[/url]

CSN Baltimore's Rich Dubroff takes a look at the existing 2012 rotation options.

[tpjs1]

As one who believes a team will only go as far as their pitching takes it, you can't help but have concerns about the Orioles starters. But, I think we have some good young talent and I expect improvement in 2012. Matusz figures to start the year in Norfolk, but you never know. If he has a phenomenal spring, he could force his way into the rotation. You can't expect it, but it will be fun if it happens.

[BSLChrisStoner]

With the addition of Wada, the staff I would like to see* based on what is currently here is:

Guthrie, Britton, Arrieta, Matusz, Wada
Johnson, Gregg, Strop, Hunter, Simon, Bergesen orTillman, Patton or Eveland

*This is based on my current assumption that Guthrie is not traded prior to the non-waiver deadline, and with Johnson also not being traded.

I do agree that Matusz needs to earn his position in ST, and I think he will. I think heading into ST, the O's will speak a lot about Hunter, Wada, and Eveland being in the rotation. If Matusz stumbles at all in the Spring, they will.

If Matusz looks good in the Spring, I'd be surprised if they sent him back to AAA.

If Wei-Yin gets signed (or any other veteran type is added), that is when the rotation gets interesting. Perhaps at that point Arrieta gets moved to the bullpen.

At least one of, and possibly both Bergesen or Tillman are going back to AAA. I'd like to see one of them in the pen.

[SportsGuy]

In what way does Bmat have to earn his spot?

Does he just need to be throwing well?

Does he have to have good stats in a small sampling of innings?

If he goes out in ST and is throwing the ball great but has a 5 ERA in 18 ST innings, should he be in the rotation?

[BSLChrisStoner]

In what way does Bmat have to earn his spot?

Does he just need to be throwing well?

Does he have to have good stats in a small sampling of innings?

If he goes out in ST and is throwing the ball great but has a 5 ERA in 18 ST innings, should he be in the rotation?

He has to be healthy (mentally and physically). It has to be clear that he worked hard in the Winter (which the O's should know from their reports with Anderson).

When he gets to camp, even if the results are mediocre (like you allude to, there is going to be a small sample size), he has to look like he has a plan.

It should be clear to the O's that even if he is not as good as he was in his last 10 starts of 2010, that he is not as bad as he looked in his 12 or so starts in '11. I'll be very irritated if the O's give him away this Winter with his value at a low.

[tpjs1]

Frankly, Matusz has to show confidence, command and get results to earn a spot. He was sooooo awful last year that the bar has to be a little bit higher for him to be in the rotation opening day. Of course, how the others do will also play into it. As for ST being a small sample size, you have to go on something. He has had both good and bad in his past performances, so you can't go by that. If he is truly bad, you ship him out. If he is lights out good, you find a spot. If he is somewhere in between, you send him out (assuming your other options are viable) and let him prove he belongs here.

[SportsGuy]

For me, as long as he is throwing well and is in good shape mentally and physically, I am handing him a spot.

The 2012 season should not be about 2012. 2012 is already over when it comes to contention.

2012 is all about getting these young guys enough time to finally show if they belong or not.

Having Tommy Hunter go out there and throw 80 innings of 4.75 ERA baseball while BMat is in AAA really doesn't do anything for the club.

I don't think it is going to matter though...I think Buck is intent on dealing Matusz and he won't even be at ST.

[Don Olsen]

Matusz has and always will be a fly ball pitcher. The ability to gain separation between his fastball and secondary were keeping hitters honest. If, as last season, players could sit on his change up, etc.... and still catch an 88 mph, things were not going to work well for him.

There are likely many, many, reasons on why this happens or why that happens, but the results were subpar. There is hope that he learned what it took to be a professional and that success is more than talent, it takes hard work to maintain success.

The Orioles are in a weird holding pattern at the moment. I am not quite sure that Wada, Eveland, or any other back end add on can be that missing link to provide some stability in the lineup. At the very least, they add depth and multiple swing men to bare the burden in case the injury bug, lazy bug, just do not have what it takes bug sets in during the stretch run of the season.

[SportsGuy]

Matusz has and always will be a fly ball pitcher. The ability to gain separation between his fastball and secondary were keeping hitters honest. If, as last season, players could sit on his change up, etc.... and still catch an 88 mph, things were not going to work well for him.

There are likely many, many, reasons on why this happens or why that happens, but the results were subpar. There is hope that he learned what it took to be a professional and that success is more than talent, it takes hard work to maintain success.

The Orioles are in a weird holding pattern at the moment. I am not quite sure that Wada, Eveland, or any other back end add on can be that missing link to provide some stability in the lineup. At the very least, they add depth and multiple swing men to bare the burden in case the injury bug, lazy bug, just do not have what it takes bug sets in during the stretch run of the season.

It is all about command with Matusz.

[Don Olsen]

His command has always lived high, it is the reason why he was a fly ball pitcher in San Diego, and why he gives up fly balls over his career and it trended downward as he has been exposed. He was never the type the Orioles needed to select. For a pitcher to see any amount of success, they needs some swing/miss and the ability to keep it on the ground.

It is tough for anyone to pitch is a hitter friendly park and even harder to fit that profile needed for top of the rotation. I hope Matusz finds that ability to keep it low and away on a consistent basis, turning into a ground ball machine. History is just not trending this way at the moment.

Command fitting for OPACY was always suspect, but his ability to gain separation was allowing him to keep hitters from really squaring up for contact. If he finds that fastball from the minors and college, it keeps hitter honest. It allows his other pitches to be that more effective.

[SportsGuy]

His command has always lived high, it is the reason why he was a fly ball pitcher in San Diego, and why he gives up fly balls over his career and it trended downward as he has been exposed. He was never the type the Orioles needed to select. For a pitcher to see any amount of success, they needs some swing/miss and the ability to keep it on the ground.

It is tough for anyone to pitch is a hitter friendly park and even harder to fit that profile needed for top of the rotation. I hope Matusz finds that ability to keep it low and away on a consistent basis, turning into a ground ball machine. History is just not trending this way at the moment.

Command fitting for OPACY was always suspect, but his ability to gain separation was allowing him to keep hitters from really squaring up for contact. If he finds that fastball from the minors and college, it keeps hitter honest. It allows his other pitches to be that more effective.

I would prefer him to get more groundballs but he can still be very successful as a flyball pitcher.

In his intial stint in the majors, he had a swingingstr% of 17%..In 2010, it was 14%. Those are both very solid numbers but in 2011, it was down to 10%.

So, he could miss bats and he was able to get a good amount of K's. His walks were also solid and were likely to get better.

You can live with homers if they come with no one on base. In his first 2 ML stints, his HR rate was a little on the high side but his overall numbers were good.

However, we have seen a drop in velocity...As you pointed out, the difference between his change up and FB wasn't enough. He was also not able to command his curveball last year.

And because his command is off and he has been unable to spot his pitches, his control has also been effected. When he is giving up a lot of hits and walking guys, that is when him being a flyball pitcher becomes an issue.

I do agree he needs to be down in the zone more(and go inside more) though...The 4 seamer isn't a pitch he should probably be throwing.

[PD24]

For me, as long as he is throwing well and is in good shape mentally and physically, I am handing him a spot.

The 2012 season should not be about 2012. 2012 is already over when it comes to contention.

2012 is all about getting these young guys enough time to finally show if they belong or not.

Having Tommy Hunter go out there and throw 80 innings of 4.75 ERA baseball while BMat is in AAA really doesn't do anything for the club.

I don't think it is going to matter though...I think Buck is intent on dealing Matusz and he won't even be at ST.

Matusz isn't getting a job in the rotation if he's not one of the top 5 starters at the time based on results. Now, if Eveland gives up 5 runs in 15 innings in ST and Matusz gives up 7 in 14, I think Bmat would get it. But other than something like that, I think the whole point of getting Eveland and Wada and other depth is to make these guys, specifically Matusz, have to compete for what they want.

Buck is going to make it very hard on Matusz to make the rotation.

[SportsGuy]

For me, as long as he is throwing well and is in good shape mentally and physically, I am handing him a spot.

The 2012 season should not be about 2012. 2012 is already over when it comes to contention.

2012 is all about getting these young guys enough time to finally show if they belong or not.

Having Tommy Hunter go out there and throw 80 innings of 4.75 ERA baseball while BMat is in AAA really doesn't do anything for the club.

I don't think it is going to matter though...I think Buck is intent on dealing Matusz and he won't even be at ST.

Matusz isn't getting a job in the rotation if he's not one of the top 5 starters at the time based on results. Now, if Eveland gives up 5 runs in 15 innings in ST and Matusz gives up 7 in 14, I think Bmat would get it. But other than something like that, I think the whole point of getting Eveland and Wada and other depth is to make these guys, specifically Matusz, have to compete for what they want.

Buck is going to make it very hard on Matusz to make the rotation.

I agree Buck is going to make it hard. Buck is short sighted and seemingly has an issue with BMat.

However, Buck is being selfish if that is the case.

Eveland is terrible and has no business even being on the team, much less in the rotation.

[PD24]

For me, as long as he is throwing well and is in good shape mentally and physically, I am handing him a spot.

The 2012 season should not be about 2012. 2012 is already over when it comes to contention.

2012 is all about getting these young guys enough time to finally show if they belong or not.

Having Tommy Hunter go out there and throw 80 innings of 4.75 ERA baseball while BMat is in AAA really doesn't do anything for the club.

I don't think it is going to matter though...I think Buck is intent on dealing Matusz and he won't even be at ST.

Matusz isn't getting a job in the rotation if he's not one of the top 5 starters at the time based on results. Now, if Eveland gives up 5 runs in 15 innings in ST and Matusz gives up 7 in 14, I think Bmat would get it. But other than something like that, I think the whole point of getting Eveland and Wada and other depth is to make these guys, specifically Matusz, have to compete for what they want.

Buck is going to make it very hard on Matusz to make the rotation.

I agree Buck is going to make it hard. Buck is short sighted and seemingly has an issue with BMat.

However, Buck is being selfish if that is the case.

Eveland is terrible and has no business even being on the team, much less in the rotation.

Have to agree with you here.

Not that this is new to anyone, but Buck's biggest gripe with Matusz at one point last season was his time to the plate. They really worked with him on that and it screwed him up. IMO, that is a case of Buck being way too stubborn and controlling.

His issues with Matusz continued through the end of the season. No chance he's just given a spot in the rotation, but he absolutely should be unless he isn't healthy. If Matusz would get traded to say Atlanta, no doubt in my mind he'd put up an ERA under 4.5 and win 12+ games.

[BSLChrisStoner]

MASN / Melewski: http://www.masnsport...g-rotation.html

[BSLChrisStoner]

Baltimore Sun: O's interested in Chen, Saunders, and Jackson
http://www.baltimore...0,6565010.story

I've put this here, as a catch-all discussion for the rotation.