143 replies to this topic

[BaltBird 24]

Did Valdez, Gallen, or any of the other SP options fall off the board? You all are acting like the offseason is over and OD is tomorrow.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Did Valdez, Gallen, or any of the other SP options fall off the board? You all are acting like the offseason is over and OD is tomorrow.

Valdez is the only non trade candidate that fits Elias' own stated goal left.

[Mackus]

Did Valdez, Gallen, or any of the other SP options fall off the board? You all are acting like the offseason is over and OD is tomorrow.

A lot of self-imposed deadlines for when it's wise to sign a FA SP to a big deal are lapsing or will soon. Orioles may or may not have such a deadline. Or maybe they can get a short term deal past deeper into February. Think most posts are discussing as things stand today and posters will revise if there is a major change.

[Slidemaster]

IMO its a failed off season once again. Now that doesn't mean we can't win with what we have. And come October if we are still in it that won't mean it was the correct approach SP wise.

Go back and read what most on here thought we needed to do this offseason pitching wise. Almost across the board it was to add two SP with a TOR and a MOR being the most predominant opinion. What has Elias done so far?

Two starters BOTH who have significant questions coming into the season.

Baz - Is he really a lot better than his previous performance? At best you could think he's a MOR guy.
Eflin - Is he even going to hold up coming off back surgery? At best you could think he's a BOR guy.

To me its the same as last off season. And yes Mackus, this is better than Morton and Sugano but the general gist is exactly the same. He's brought in two guys with big questions and neither has evershown front end numbers.

Now if Bradish and Rogers had shown a good history of being healthy and FOR numbers then you could see a different approach. But they haven't and Elias appears once again to be banking on things working out in the best case scenario. No margin for error. SMDH

It is absolutely wild that they signed one of the best closers on the market, one of the best hitters on the market, traded for a controllable high upside pitcher, added additional rotation depth, added another good outfield bat, and you are saying it's the same as the last offseason where their best addition was a 41-year-old pitcher on a one-year deal.

Like, you just can't be serious, right? My bread and butter is being glass-half-empty, and I would have to twist myself in knots and hit the bottle hard to try to convince myself that this off season was no better than the last one. At this time last year, Eflin was going to be their number one starter. This year, he may not even be their number 5.

Also, you must have forgotten, but their offense last year was nearly as bad as their starting pitching. The improvements in the lineup are not nothing. They are massive.

The starting rotation, lineup, and bullpen are all better, and not by a little. All of them.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I'd say the Orioles didn't really take pitching development serious until around 22/23 for whatever reason. They've seemed to ramp it up a bit since and you're beginning to see some interesting arms in AA/AAA.

When they moved away from Holt running the minor league pitching program thats when things apparently got better

[TwentyThirtyFive]

As Ive said, pitchers arent fond of Baltimore. There is reason to believe Suarez sat on our deal for a long time. Were we supposed to negotiate against ourselves?? Valdez may be doing the same. Again, I emphatically believe a big overpay on a FA SP is a mistake. We need to have the farm system to produce a good arm or two and keep the farm system strong so we can make trades for pitching when necessary.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Some of you are also too obsessed with a TOR guy. Or what you assume to be a TOR guy. We should be content if we had five #3s in the rotation. Besides, a guy like Suarez or Valdez could easily produce a season(s) that are MOR/BOR

[BaltBird 24]

When they moved away from Holt running the minor league pitching program thats when things apparently got better

There's a clear difference in the quality of pitching talent acquired between 2019-2021 and 22-now. Holt didn't move on til after 23, however.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

There's a clear difference in the quality of pitching talent acquired between 2019-2021 and 22-now. Holt didn't move on til after 23, however.

Stand by it. Im convinced Holt is the one who ran his mouth anyway. Was the person behind that hit piece garbage Palmer wrote last year

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Slide let me be direct as I can be. I am talking about the rotation and Elias approach. Its not much different than last off-season.

Yes the offense is improved.
I do not think the bullpen is improved.
I do think the rotation MIGHT be improved but again just like last offseason its built too much on ifs and maybes for the resources he has available.

Done discussing this with you. Its how I see it and I've explained why numerous times.

[Mackus]

Some of you are also too obsessed with a TOR guy. Or what you assume to be a TOR guy. We should be content if we had five #3s in the rotation. Besides, a guy like Suarez or Valdez could easily produce a season(s) that are MOR/BOR

Two middle of rotation additions would've been fine this off-season. Or last off-season. Not great, but fine.

Last year they went back/back. This year so far it's mid/back. Upside exists for this year's guys that didn't for last year's, but it's still falling short of the desirement.

[BobPhelan]

There's a clear difference in the quality of pitching talent acquired between 2019-2021 and 22-now. Holt didn't move on til after 23, however.

So we have two/three pitchers in the top 100 prospects in baseball and people are still hating. Trey Gibson went undrafted in 20 rounds and is at the top of the list. LDL signed for $30,000 and Mejia signed for ~$200,000. But sure, can’t have a plan without drafting pitchers early. And look they just spent $700,000 on the top international pitcher.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

No hard and fast rules as there are pitchers I would draft in the first round. As a general philosophy I agree with not drafting pitchers real early. Especially HS pitchers. 

[CantonJester]

The Red Sox just dealt two pitchers (Jordan Hicks, David Sandlin) off their 40 man roster to the White Sox for Gage Ziehl (SP from A Ball now in his third organization in less than a year). Boston is also eating a chunk of Hicks' salary. 

 

ZIehl won't be taking up a spot on the 40. 

[Slidemaster]

Slide let me be direct as I can be. I am talking about the rotation and Elias approach.

He has never signed a player like Alonso or made a trade like Baz.

His approach is different.

[Mackus]

So we have two/three pitchers in the top 100 prospects in baseball and people are still hating. Trey Gibson went undrafted in 20 rounds and is at the top of the list. LDL signed for $30,000 and Mejia signed for ~$200,000. But sure, can’t have a plan without drafting pitchers early. And look they just spent $700,000 on the top international pitcher.

None of that is mission accomplished until they produce in the majors or are used in trades (some check marks there). Elias has been here since 2019, so not having produced any pitching is a knock against him. Glad some is on the cusp now, but that's taken a long time to get those guys here and we all know how close is not the same as here.

I think the plan is fine as far as plans go, but you can't be looking at the issues we've had since mid-2022 and do very little to fix them because you think your acquisition plan that hasn't worked should have.

[BobPhelan]

None of that is mission accomplished until they produce in the majors or are used in trades (some check marks there). Elias has been here since 2019, so not having produced any pitching is a knock against him. Glad some is on the cusp now, but that's taken a long time to get those guys here and we all know how close is not the same as here.

I think the plan is fine as far as plans go, but you can't be looking at the issues we've had since mid-2022 and do very little to fix them because you think your acquisition plan that hasn't worked should have.

I agree in general but I do think he gets full credit for Bradish and Bautista.

It took longer to institute the full pitching development system than the hitting after basically starting from scratch but it’s firing on all cylinders now. The pipeline has reached AAA and is just a matter of opportunities at this point.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Im actually kinda worried about the hitting development. 2026 is a big year in that regard

[BaltBird 24]

I agree in general but I do think he gets full credit for Bradish and Bautista.

It took longer to institute the full pitching development system than the hitting after basically starting from scratch but it’s firing on all cylinders now. The pipeline has reached AAA and is just a matter of opportunities at this point.

I'd consider Cano a pitching victory as well.

Disappointed they haven't squeezed more from Povich and especially McDermott, though.

[BobPhelan]

I'd consider Cano a pitching victory as well.

Disappointed they haven't squeezed more from Povich and especially McDermott, though.

I think Povich is great as our current 7th starter and can still take steps forwards or work out of the bullpen eventually. I still believe in McDermott as a reliever and Brandon Young as a SP/RP.