65 replies to this topic

[BSLRoseKatz]

I think the main reason Traynor is in is because he was considered by many to be the best defensive 3B of all time prior to Brooks.

 

Yeah I think that's a valid case for being a HOFer and Kent having the most HRs and RBIs all-time among 2Bs is an equally valid case 

[mweb08]

It's been the hall of very good, but not these guys, and not those better guys for a very long time. Kent, Baines, Parker, etc fit in with the very imperfect history of the Hall. It's frustrating, but this isn't some notable shift.

[weird-O]

I mean Pie Traynor's been in the HOF since 1948 and his career WAR among 3B is lower than Josh Donaldson and Alex Bregman and nearly tied with Eric Chavez, there's always been guys who will look underwhelming compared to Mays, Ruth, Aaron, etc 

You know as well as anyone, you can't compare players from different eras. I'm not frustrated by his election, but I think there's a reason the writers didn't vote him in. And if anything, he had one thing on his resume that should have really affected their decisions. He hated Barry Bonds almost as much as they did.  

[Nigel Tufnel]

I mean Pie Traynor's been in the HOF since 1948 and his career WAR among 3B is lower than Josh Donaldson and Alex Bregman and nearly tied with Eric Chavez, there's always been guys who will look underwhelming compared to Mays, Ruth, Aaron, etc 

 

Remember, the Baseball Encyclopedia didn't come out until 1969.  Before that, it wasn't that easy to look up career stats.  Isn't there a rumor that the HOF provided stats for the wrong Waner brother, which is how the lesser one (Lloyd) was elected?

 

For Traynor, a reputation as the best defensive 3B ever, plus a lifetime .320 average would have been enough.

 

Generally, though, it's been the various veteran's committees who have elected the weakest candidates, so Kent is just carrying on that tradition.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Phillies cornerstone Utley one to watch in critical year on Hall of Fame ballot

[BSLChrisStoner]

Baseball Hall of Fame: Why long-feared slugger has no shot at Cooperstown

[BSLChrisStoner]

CBS Sports: Five Baseball Hall of Fame candidates running out the clock in ballot purgatory

https://www.cbssport...t-torii-hunter/

[Mike B]

I guess a case can be made for all of them, but to me, they are not HOF players.  If I had to pick one, it would be either Abreu or Hunter.

[BSLChrisStoner]

FanGraphs: Jay Jaffe’s 2026 Hall of Fame Ballot

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Utley only. Ill take a final stand on Jones next year. Im not really a Beltran fan and maybe that bias is the reason but Im not putting him in yet. If I do at all

[SBTarheel]

Felix Hernandez' rise this year has been pretty wild.20% last year, he's at 58% as we speak. 

 

I think I read he's 20 for 20 with first year voters. 

 

Anyway, for me:

 

Abreu
Beltran
Felix
Jones
Manny
A Rod
Utley

[BSLChrisStoner]

Felix Hernandez getting that many votes is crazy to me.

A nigh quality, worthy of remembering career.... but HOF? Come on.

Jaffe on Hernandez:
https://blogs.fangra...elix-hernandez/

[BobPhelan]

Felix definitely deserves to be a HOF IMO. If not him then what pitchers after Verlander, Scherzer, Kershaw will?

[mdrunning]

Felix definitely deserves to be a HOF IMO. If not him then what pitchers after Verlander, Scherzer, Kershaw will?

A couple of names that come to mind are Skubal and Skenes. Of course, given the fickle nature of pitchers today, each would probably have to establish a five or six-year period of dominance if their arms do in fact, ultimately betray them. That would be in line with someone like Sandy Koufax (God, is he really 90 years old now?), whose peak years were rather short, and didn't pitch past the age of 30, yet made it into the Hall on the first ballot in 1972.

 

If you put King Felix's career in the right context, then you could make a case for his induction. One comparison I've come across is Dizzy Dean, the last NL pitcher to win 30 games. For the first five years of his career, Dean was one of the best pitchers in baseball, but when his arm started to go bad in 1937, the rest of his career was a slog. Similarly, from 2009 to 2014, King Felix was the best pitcher in the American League by any number of metrics, but when he lost a yard of his fastball after that, he was just another pitcher.

 

I guess it's a matter of deciding if the earlier lights-out years outweigh the later mediocre ones.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Dude only put up 117 ERA+. If youre gonna burn fast you gotta be brighter than that. De Grom is 151. Johan was 130. By the way what was the highest % Johan ever received.


Cole Hamels pitched in the same era and put up 123 ERA+. Damn good pitcher but why do I feel like there wont be a ton of early year support for him

[SBTarheel]

Dude only put up 117 ERA+. If youre gonna burn fast you gotta be brighter than that. De Grom is 151. Johan was 130. By the way what was the highest % Johan ever received.


Cole Hamels pitched in the same era and put up 123 ERA+. Damn good pitcher but why do I feel like there wont be a ton of early year support for him

Hamels is at 31% as we "speak", Felix was 20% in his first year. Maybe a big jump for Hamels today. 

[BobPhelan]

Dude only put up 117 ERA+. If youre gonna burn fast you gotta be brighter than that. De Grom is 151. Johan was 130. By the way what was the highest % Johan ever received.


Cole Hamels pitched in the same era and put up 123 ERA+. Damn good pitcher but why do I feel like there wont be a ton of early year support for him

Johan should be in too. I’m a big hall guy and if the barometer for pitchers getting in doesn’t change than not many ever will.

[mweb08]

Dude only put up 117 ERA+. If youre gonna burn fast you gotta be brighter than that. De Grom is 151. Johan was 130. By the way what was the highest % Johan ever received.


Cole Hamels pitched in the same era and put up 123 ERA+. Damn good pitcher but why do I feel like there wont be a ton of early year support for him

 

Yeah, I agree. Felix had a really strong 6 year peak with a few good seasons bordering it, but that's pretty much it. 

 

He has a similar case to Andruw Jones despite the difference in position as both came up at age 19 and quickly made an impact, but both also were just about done after the age of 30. However, Jones had more great seasons and provided more overall value than did Felix. 

 

But hey, Felix is more deserving than Jack Morris, so there's that.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

We can always do the he is more deserving than the "worst" HOFers. I might be willing to take one more look at Felix near the end of his eligibility but not even a real consideration right now.

[makoman]

But hey, Felix is more deserving than Jack Morris, so there's that.

This is the thing. People can be in favor of a small Hall if they want, but the people that make the decisions keep putting in Morris and Baines and Parker and such. And it’s been like that forever. So if we’re arguing over “Who’s a HOFer” you have to look at who’s already in and base it on that. And then try to ignore that some of the best players ever are blackballed. To me it’s easier to just not care at all anymore about it.