52 replies to this topic

[russsnyder]

It's a fair point as far as widespread gambling for sure, but in terms of the leagues working with the Draft Kings/Fan Duel's of the world to try to monitor things is a good thing I think. Much easier to monitor "shady" trends that they see and work with the leagues to eradicate the best they can. They've caught far more people since it's been legalized than they did in the past. No one is naive enough to think that this is a new issue.

I get where to are coming from and I know there is too much money at stake to turn back now, however, I think it's a bad marriage by principle.

[SBTarheel]

I get where to are coming from and I know there is too much money at stake to turn back now, however, I think it's a bad marriage by principle.

For sure, that ship has definitely sailed. They're all in, and at they just have to do the best they can to make sure these situations get handled quickly when they arise (which will continue to happen I'm sure)

 

The point above about the prop bets is a good one, UNDER bets especially are much easier to control (I may have said that somewhere in here, apologies for repeating myself), so I'd have no issue with UNDERS being severely cut down on, OVER bets are much more difficult for a player to control.

[dude]

.... by getting rid of these prop bets that individual players have control over. 

 

Just sitting here thinking about this (as a guy that's never placed a bet), but maybe the answer is somewhere along these lines. (edit: was typing when SBT posted something similar above)

 

Don't allow the bets for single-person-control outcomes.

 

Clase throws the first pitch so far outside the ump can't call it a strike.  That's easy and you can even justify (in the players mind) that they aren't actually giving up anything competitive...just come back and strike the guy out.  Ball one, who cares.

 

Judge can't determine if he gets a hit.  You need too much cooperation and luck to generate an outcome.  Pitcher could throw a meatball and you still have to hit it and the fielders can't catch it.

 

It's exponentially harder to manage outcomes when 2-3-4+ people are engaged in that competitive outcome.

[SBTarheel]

They just announced that they're limiting first pitch betting to $200 MAX, and eliminating them from parlays.

 

Well done all around.

[BSLMikeLowe]

I'm saying that baseball in particular should take a stand. The sport was almost ruined by gambling & gamblers has embraced online gambling. At least, take a stand by getting rid of these prop bets that individual players have control over. I know it's not going to happen, but the leagues will lose credibility if these things keep happening.

It’s not MLBs call to get rid of prop bets. It’s either up to the sports books to stop offering them (unlikely) or Congress to pass legislation banning it (not likely for now, but if this becomes a bigger problem then maybe). The most MLB can do is hand down the harshest punishment for players caught doing it, but if a player is still going to be stupid enough to put his career in jeopardy, what more can they do?

[BaltBird 24]

They just announced that they're limiting first pitch betting to $200 MAX, and eliminating them from parlays.

Well done all around.

$200 bet for a pitch is still crazy.

[SBTarheel]

$200 bet for a pitch is still crazy.

$2 for a pitch is crazy, but at least they're limiting it, and $200 likely won't change anyone's life, win or lose. 

[russsnyder]

It’s not MLBs call to get rid of prop bets. It’s either up to the sports books to stop offering them (unlikely) or Congress to pass legislation banning it (not likely for now, but if this becomes a bigger problem then maybe). The most MLB can do is hand down the harshest punishment for players caught doing it, but if a player is still going to be stupid enough to put his career in jeopardy, what more can they do?

I have an issue with MLB getting involved with gambling platforms in the first place. My angst is not going to change anything. While I have bet on sports, I have never bet on baseball. I'm just wired that way.

[SBTarheel]

I have an issue with MLB getting involved with gambling platforms in the first place. My angst is not going to change anything. While I have bet on sports, I have never bet on baseball. I'm just wired that way.

In my business, it's easy to promote Baseball as the "easiest" sport to bet as there's no point spread, it's a money line, and all you have to do is win the game.

 

The truth is that it's VERY hard to win consistently in Baseball, with bullpens being the biggest factor. You literally have to handicap the game without knowing who's going to pitch 3-4 innings. 

 

Was easier when I first started in 1995, but we're a long way from those days, starting pitching wise. 

[BSLMikeLowe]

I have an issue with MLB getting involved with gambling platforms in the first place. My angst is not going to change anything. While I have bet on sports, I have never bet on baseball. I'm just wired that way.

Ok, but not exactly the point I was trying to make. And as Seth pointed out, there are benefits to the leagues and the sportsbooks playing nice with each other and working collaboratively to try and root out the rotten apples. But MLB can’t unilaterally say that prop bets are now illegal.

[russsnyder]

Just sitting here thinking about this (as a guy that's never placed a bet), but maybe the answer is somewhere along these lines. (edit: was typing when SBT posted something similar above)

Don't allow the bets for single-person-control outcomes.

Clase throws the first pitch so far outside the ump can't call it a strike. That's easy and you can even justify (in the players mind) that they aren't actually giving up anything competitive...just come back and strike the guy out. Ball one, who cares.

Judge can't determine if he gets a hit. You need too much cooperation and luck to generate an outcome. Pitcher could throw a meatball and you still have to hit it and the fielders can't catch it.

It's exponentially harder to manage outcomes when 2-3-4+ people are engaged in that competitive outcome.

Good post.

I know prop bets aren't going away, however, your example of betting on Judge getting a hit rings true as to what a good prop bet should be. There are layers to it

As a very casual gambler, I wouldn't even think about betting on a ball, strike, or mph pitch.

That said, I think one of the more popular prop bets is the Super Bowl coin flip.People love to bet on 50/50 outcomes.

[russsnyder]

Ok, but not exactly the point I was trying to make. And as Seth pointed out, there are benefits to the leagues and the sportsbooks playing nice with each other and working collaboratively to try and root out the rotten apples. But MLB can’t unilaterally say that prop bets are now illegal.

It would take some stones, but banning the prop bets would be a step in providing some integrity to the process. I'm not really buying Seth's position completely. MLB and the NBA both had major issues with their players not performing because of prop bets. People love to bet on sports, however, everyone will lose if the trust between the leagues & the public is broken.

[BSLMikeLowe]

In my business, it's easy to promote Baseball as the "easiest" sport to bet as there's no point spread, it's a money line, and all you have to do is win the game.

 

The truth is that it's VERY hard to win consistently in Baseball, with bullpens being the biggest factor. You literally have to handicap the game without knowing who's going to pitch 3-4 innings. 

 

Was easier when I first started in 1995, but we're a long way from those days, starting pitching wise. 

That’s what I find interesting about the predictions markets. Not only are they ostensibly moneyline bets, but you aren’t going against the house either (though the brokerage still takes its commission on every contract bought). And if you’re ahead you can “cash out” before the game is even over. And of course it’s all legal, for now, even in states that don’t allow sports betting.

[SBTarheel]

That’s what I find interesting about the predictions markets. Not only are they ostensibly moneyline bets, but you aren’t going against the house either (though the brokerage still takes its commission on every contract bought). And if you’re ahead you can “cash out” before the game is even over. And of course it’s all legal, for now, even in states that don’t allow sports betting.

No one cashes out. 

 

Ever. 

 

But it's a good point. 

[BSLMikeLowe]

No one cashes out. 

 

Ever. 

 

But it's a good point. 

That’s why I put it in “ ”. Technically you just sell your contract(s) to another buyer.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Seth how overall have the online sports books impacted you? I know initially there was some frustration.

[Slidemaster]

Stuff like this makes me wonder how many people have never gotten caught. Every inexplicably bad decision feels like it could be motivated by something else.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Stuff like this makes me wonder how many people have never gotten caught. Every inexplicably bad decision feels like it could be motivated by something else.

 

I suspect it's less than many think, but that's just my hunch. Even if it's a player just doing it for a few buddies to make them a couple bucks here and there, how many are dumb enough to take that risk?

 

I do suspect as I mentioned earlier that in college sports, especially mid and low-major D1 schools in sports like basketball, it would seem to be more likely to be prevalent. You have players at that level who aren't getting paid, and maybe making $100 on a prop bet or $1000 on the under is worth the risk.

[SBTarheel]

Seth how overall have the online sports books impacted you? I know initially there was some frustration.

Still very frustrating. 

 

Too many young kids just looking for free plays or cheap parlays, and disappear after you lose a game or two. We made our living on long term clients, and that's much tougher now. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

UFC is facing the fire with what is likely a recent thrown fight. Plus, its a sport where the fighters arent getting paid very well. Especially the ones lower on the card. People are starting to dig into results and boy oh boy could this be a huge scandal. But the UFC has a very powerful ally, so who knows how much just goes away