33 replies to this topic

[BaltBird 24]

They usually don't miss on the defensive side. Pees wasn't great, but never Orr bad. Aside from that, can't really think of any other bad coordinators on that side of the ball.

[Mackus]

Yeah they've never had anything close to this level of struggle from a DC. OC's have worn out their welcome in short order, but they had a lot of benefit of the doubt when it came to picking DC's and it had also always been in-house (I'm counting McDonald as such).

Think the combo of McDonald's youth and his quick ascension to HC didn't allow them the usual development period of the underling positional coaches for them to have a next man up ready to take over.

[jamesdean]

Of course the Ravens fielding a practice squad defense isn't making the situation any better. Its just exacerbates Orr's incompetence.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Think the combo of McDonald's youth and his quick ascension to HC didn't allow them the usual development period of the underling positional coaches for them to have a next man up ready to take over.

 

That was compounded by two other defensive assistants being hired by other teams. That's a lot of turnover, and for that reason I think Orr deserved a little more rope last season. But this season it has become clear he and the defense did not pick up where they ended last year, so big changes are necessary. Unfortunately the options for that are extremely limited in-season.

 

You can definitely make a case that promoting a first time DC while also having to hire two other defensive assistants (which ended up being three when factoring replacing Orr at ILB coach) was very poor judgement on Harbaugh's part.

[makoman]

Yeah they've never had anything close to this level of struggle from a DC. OC's have worn out their welcome in short order, but they had a lot of benefit of the doubt when it came to picking DC's and it had also always been in-house (I'm counting McDonald as such).

Think the combo of McDonald's youth and his quick ascension to HC didn't allow them the usual development period of the underling positional coaches for them to have a next man up ready to take over.

Yeah when they hired Orr everyone left. Probably a more normal progression would have been hiring Anthony Weaver or Dennard Wilson or an outsider and letting Orr stay on to learn more, and then hiring Orr a couple years later. But there was talk Macdonald wanted Orr so maybe that wasn’t possible.

[makoman]

They usually don't miss on the defensive side. Pees wasn't great, but never Orr bad. Aside from that, can't really think of any other bad coordinators on that side of the ball.

Mattison is meh, but yeah having to go back that far is a good thing. DC is mostly fine, OC has been iffy.

Defense
Rex 2008
Mattison 2009-10
Pagano 2011
Pees 2012-17
Wink 2018-21
Macdonald 2022-23
Orr 2024-

Offense
Cameron 2008-12
Caldwell 2012-13
Kubiak 2014
Trestman 2015-16
Morningweh 2016-18
Roman 2019-22
Monken 2023-

[Mackus]

The OCs pretty much all started strong and then faded fairly quickly. Trestman maybe the exception who struggled all the time.

It's pretty hard to have a good OC for a long time. If they're sustaining quality, they'll get a HC gig.

[jamesdean]

Mattison is meh, but yeah having to go back that far is a good thing. DC is mostly fine, OC has been iffy.

 

Defense

Rex 2008

Mattison 2009-10

Pagano 2011

Pees 2012-17

Wink 2018-21

Macdonald  2022-23

Orr 2024-

 

Cameron 2008-12

Caldwell 2012-13

Kubiak 2014

Trestman 2015-16

Morningweh 2016-18

Roman 2019-22

Monken 2023-

Kubiak was a good one.  Flacco had his best year as a pro with him. 

[Biggsy]

The OCs pretty much all started strong and then faded fairly quickly. Trestman maybe the exception who struggled all the time.

It's pretty hard to have a good OC for a long time. If they're sustaining quality, they'll get a HC gig.

Teams have really gone with the young gun approach to coordinators. KC figured it out. Find a DC that has proven to be a great defensive coach/coordinator. But has failed miserably as a HC. And is older.

Spagnuolo is a phenomenal DC. And he's been in KC since 2019 without so much of a sniff as a head coach offer. And for the record, he was in Baltimore with Pees for 2 seasons.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Teams have really gone with the young gun approach to coordinators. KC figured it out. Find a DC that has proven to be a great defensive coach/coordinator. But has failed miserably as a HC. And is older.

Spagnuolo is a phenomenal DC. And he's been in KC since 2019 without so much of a sniff as a head coach offer. And for the record, he was in Baltimore with Pees for 2 seasons.

 

I don't think there is a no-fail formula for hiring coaches. Spagnuolo's success has been mixed as a DC. He had a historically bad defense in his one season in New Orleans, and then again with the Giants the season after he left the Ravens.

[bmore_ken]

There is a point where this team sucks badly enough that Harbaugh is thanked for his service and sent on his way. Talking about that possibility is not a waste of time to me.

He's not going anywhere mid season. he has the injury excuse and the offense prior to Lamar's injury was knocking it out of the park. If it weren't for the defense the team would have been 3-0 in the first three games. That falls on Orr and ultimately Harbaugh as the HC. But neither are going anywhere mid season. Especially with the schedule they had. Switch the Steelers schedule with ours and they're probably 1-5 as well, 

[Mackus]

Teams have really gone with the young gun approach to coordinators. KC figured it out. Find a DC that has proven to be a great defensive coach/coordinator. But has failed miserably as a HC. And is older.

Spagnuolo is a phenomenal DC. And he's been in KC since 2019 without so much of a sniff as a head coach offer. And for the record, he was in Baltimore with Pees for 2 seasons.

I was talking about OCs. DC it's a little easier to find stability because fewer defensive guys get HC jobs than offensive minds. Also those guys tend to get fired more quickly so they return to the DC level more often than their OC peers.

[BaltBird 24]

Mattison is meh, but yeah having to go back that far is a good thing. DC is mostly fine, OC has been iffy.

Defense
Rex 2008
Mattison 2009-10
Pagano 2011
Pees 2012-17
Wink 2018-21
Macdonald 2022-23
Orr 2024-

Offense
Cameron 2008-12
Caldwell 2012-13
Kubiak 2014
Trestman 2015-16
Morningweh 2016-18
Roman 2019-22
Monken 2023-

I don't remember having a great opinion of Mattison, but his defenses were 3rd in scoring both years at 16.3 and 16.9 a game.

I know the game has changed a lot in 15-20 years in favor of more offense, but Orr is 32nd at 32.3 per game.

[BSLMattJergensen]

Did you see that play? It was a one yard loss where he beat a TE to the outside and there were 3 other guys ready to get Tua another step upfield. Still a sack, but not a major impact play other than it occured on 3rd down.

I'll never regret trading Oweh. Not fair to compare him exactly to the Bryan Baker trade, but that's close to how I feel about it.

I did. It wasn't any thing major but I just found it interesting on a day where the edges got zero pressure that he notched a sack.

 

I don't regret the trade. In the long run it makes sense to move him now. You can questions the wisdom of picking a project so high in the draft. 

 

Oweh=Baker 

 

Never thought of that but I would usually get angry when they brought him into the game. For me it was a Mike Trombley level of disdain.