4966 replies to this topic

[jamesdean]

Leadership is irrelevant is certainly an opinion.

True.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Well then

[Mike B]

I think the lack of a true veteran leader is hurting this team.  I also think we need to  bring in true veteran coaches to enforce the fundamentals of the game.  I am not a Hyde basher like some of you are, but I always thought the players had too much freedom, which contributed and still contributes to some of the mistakes.  I think things have gotten worse under Manso.  I have heard him say, he wants his players to be aggressive, which is fine unless they prove incapable of making sound decisions.   We certainly have some of those types.

All that said, I think we can blame the coaches and manager to a point but at some time, a player needs to step up and call out some of those constantly making mistakes.  

The Oriole teams of the past had those guys.  Frank Robinson, Jim Palmer, Ken Singleton, Eddie, Cal, JJ Hardy, Adam Jones and others all led the team not only by example but with words. Who is that guy now?

 

I know it is not going to happen, but this team screams for Buck Showalter.  Hire him and let him pick his coaches.  Let him use Analytics to augment baseball smarts and fundamentals and not the other way around.  

[ivanbalt]

I think the lack of a true veteran leader is hurting this team.  I also think we need to  bring in true veteran coaches to enforce the fundamentals of the game.  I am not a Hyde basher like some of you are, but I always thought the players had too much freedom, which contributed and still contributes to some of the mistakes.  I think things have gotten worse under Manso.  I have heard him say, he wants his players to be aggressive, which is fine unless they prove incapable of making sound decisions.   We certainly have some of those types.

All that said, I think we can blame the coaches and manager to a point but at some time, a player needs to step up and call out some of those constantly making mistakes.  

The Oriole teams of the past had those guys.  Frank Robinson, Jim Palmer, Ken Singleton, Eddie, Cal, JJ Hardy, Adam Jones and others all led the team not only by example but with words. Who is that guy now?

 

I know it is not going to happen, but this team screams for Buck Showalter.  Hire him and let him pick his coaches.  Let him use Analytics to augment baseball smarts and fundamentals and not the other way around.  

Henderson needs to be the leader even if he's only here 2-3 more seasons.

[Mike B]

Henderson needs to be the leader even if he's only here 2-3 more seasons.

Agreed, and there are signs that he is trying, but a quality veteran would help.

 

Yesterday was a perfect example.  Where the hell was Dylan Carlson going in the 9th inning.  Little leaguers know you do not go to third when the ball is hit right to the shortstop.  It was right in front of him, how could he take off.  I wonder if anyone said anything to him..  In a year full of dumb plays that play may take home the gold medal for the worst in 2025.

[jamesdean]

People here keep talking about leaders and fundamentals but I think the big picture gets a bit distorted. Because we follow the team closely on a daily basis, their low baseball IQ and fundamental futility gets understandably magnified. The reality is, its a sport wide problem. I watch a lot of different podcasts hosted by players from 30-40 years ago and they all are appalled by the lack of fundamentals around the game. Everyone keeps imploring Elias to hire a manager who will change that culture and suddenly make the Orioles a smart team. Who is that going to be? If they're going to bring in someone that's currently an active manager or coach, why would you think anything will be different? Maybe they'll be more of a motivating force and handle the roster better but fundamentals? I doubt that will change to any noticeable degree. Nobody cares about that stuff in today's game. Certainly not the players or the ones that coached them up the minor league ladder. Sloppy, stupid play is here to stay. Its what you get as a fan now. It may be infuriating to some of us who grew up watching a much different game but for most, they don't care.

[weird-O]

People here keep talking about leaders and fundamentals but I think the big picture gets a bit distorted. Because we follow the team closely on a daily basis, their low baseball IQ and fundamental futility gets understandably magnified. The reality is, its a sport wide problem. I watch a lot of different podcasts hosted by players from 30-40 years ago and they all are appalled by the lack of fundamentals around the game. Everyone keeps imploring Elias to hire a manager who will change that culture and suddenly make the Orioles a smart team. Who is that going to be? If they're going to bring in someone that's currently an active manager or coach, why would you think anything will be different? Maybe they'll be more of a motivating force and handle the roster better but fundamentals? I doubt that will change to any noticeable degree. Nobody cares about that stuff in today's game. Certainly not the players or the ones that coached them up the minor league ladder. Sloppy, stupid play is here to stay. Its what you get as a fan now. It may be infuriating to some of us who grew up watching a much different game but for most, they don't care.

I think you're right, sadly. 

[Mackus]

I'll buy the generational decline in fundamentals but I also think it's a more narrow scope of a problem. My concern isn't just that the these O's aren't as sharp as the mid-60s O's but moreso that they aren't as sharp as Buck's O's or even themselves two years ago.

[BSLMikeLowe]

People here keep talking about leaders and fundamentals but I think the big picture gets a bit distorted. Because we follow the team closely on a daily basis, their low baseball IQ and fundamental futility gets understandably magnified. The reality is, its a sport wide problem. I watch a lot of different podcasts hosted by players from 30-40 years ago and they all are appalled by the lack of fundamentals around the game. Everyone keeps imploring Elias to hire a manager who will change that culture and suddenly make the Orioles a smart team. Who is that going to be? If they're going to bring in someone that's currently an active manager or coach, why would you think anything will be different? Maybe they'll be more of a motivating force and handle the roster better but fundamentals? I doubt that will change to any noticeable degree. Nobody cares about that stuff in today's game. Certainly not the players or the ones that coached them up the minor league ladder. Sloppy, stupid play is here to stay. Its what you get as a fan now. It may be infuriating to some of us who grew up watching a much different game but for most, they don't care.

 

Start making "good fundamentals" a quantifiable stat that players get paid for and they'll start to care. This is driven by a bunch of nerds who couldn't cut it as players, so they're changing the game from off the field.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Just saying fundamentals can cover a wide range of things. There is no doubt most of these guys know the "fundamentals" well enough. I think a good bit of it is focus, awareness, accountability. Its not about teaching them something new. Its about making sure they lock in and play the game the right way

[Mackus]

I think I want Bregman even more than I did last off-season.

Trade Holliday for pitching, sign Bregman to 4/$120-140M, move Westburg to 2B.

If we can get a pitcher without using Holliday AND if Cowser can be the primary CF (I'm optimistic about that), I'm not opposed to trying Holliday in LF. Maybe if you have him learn something new from scratch you can teach him the right way of doing it.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I think I want Bregman even more than I did last off-season.

Trade Holliday for pitching, sign Bregman to 4/$120-140M, move Westburg to 2B.

If we can get a pitcher without using Holliday AND if Cowser can be the primary CF (I'm optimistic about that), I'm not opposed to trying Holliday in LF. Maybe if you have him learn something new from scratch you can teach him the right way of doing it.

There are multiple ways they can go but Im convinced more than ever they need to change up the position player mix. I suggested it last offseason, now I think its a must.

[jamesdean]

Just saying fundamentals can cover a wide range of things. There is no doubt most of these guys know the "fundamentals" well enough. I think a good bit of it is focus, awareness, accountability. Its not about teaching them something new. Its about making sure they lock in and play the game the right way

That would be great and I'd be the first to appreciate it but what I'm asking is, who's going to be the manager to enforce that?  Forget Showalter.  That's just a fantasy wish.  It's going to have to be someone who's currently active around the league or in the Orioles system. I just don't think the sport cares that much about it.  Certainly not the players. 

[makoman]

There are multiple ways they can go but Im convinced more than ever they need to change up the position player mix. I suggested it last offseason, now I think its a must.

I would have disagreed a year ago, at this point I'm fine with a shake up if you can get value, especially to improve pitching. Gunnar and Basallo are the only untouchables. Westburg is close but the constant injuries nag at me if someone wanted to overpay.

[jamesdean]

I'll buy the generational decline in fundamentals but I also think it's a more narrow scope of a problem. My concern isn't just that the these O's aren't as sharp as the mid-60s O's but moreso that they aren't as sharp as Buck's O's or even themselves two years ago.

Get used to it, buddy.  If you follow the sport for entertainment, lack of fundamentals comes with the package.  

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I dont expect 7 new starters by any means. Not that you were suggesting that. But a couple need to happen. I think most of these guys still have good trade value.

[makoman]

I'll buy the generational decline in fundamentals but I also think it's a more narrow scope of a problem. My concern isn't just that the these O's aren't as sharp as the mid-60s O's but moreso that they aren't as sharp as Buck's O's or even themselves two years ago.

Yeah the problem isn't that they aren't as good as the 1966 O's, it's that they seem to be near the bottom of 2025 MLB.

[Nigel Tufnel]

That was then, this is now.  

 

Rumble Fish?

 

Last Train to Clarkesville?

 

Can't tell if we're naming SE Hinton books or Monkees songs.

[Mike B]

People here keep talking about leaders and fundamentals but I think the big picture gets a bit distorted. Because we follow the team closely on a daily basis, their low baseball IQ and fundamental futility gets understandably magnified. The reality is, its a sport wide problem. I watch a lot of different podcasts hosted by players from 30-40 years ago and they all are appalled by the lack of fundamentals around the game. Everyone keeps imploring Elias to hire a manager who will change that culture and suddenly make the Orioles a smart team. Who is that going to be? If they're going to bring in someone that's currently an active manager or coach, why would you think anything will be different? Maybe they'll be more of a motivating force and handle the roster better but fundamentals? I doubt that will change to any noticeable degree. Nobody cares about that stuff in today's game. Certainly not the players or the ones that coached them up the minor league ladder. Sloppy, stupid play is here to stay. Its what you get as a fan now. It may be infuriating to some of us who grew up watching a much different game but for most, they don't care.

I think you're right about it being a sport problem.  I think in some ways the things players of the past held true, things like base running, hitting the cut off, small ball concepts, making contact with 2 strikes,  proper tag fundamentals etc. has been replaced by some of the modern concepts.  I think it is even more pronounced on the pitching side.  The days of work fast, change speeds and pitch to both sides of the plate has become, throw as hard as you can with as much spin as you can on every pitch.  

I have to think a smart team will eventually do more to bring both concepts together.  Again, I think Buck could fix some of these glaring problems the Orioles have but I am not sure he would even be considered, because his methods probably would not fall in line with the current regime's priorities.

[Mike B]

That would be great and I'd be the first to appreciate it but what I'm asking is, who's going to be the manager to enforce that?  Forget Showalter.  That's just a fantasy wish.  It's going to have to be someone who's currently active around the league or in the Orioles system. I just don't think the sport cares that much about it.  Certainly not the players. 

I think you're right, but it doesn't make those of us who want him back wrong.  It has to be someone like him IMO.