140 replies to this topic

[Slidemaster]

At this point, while I think this season is lost, Im ready to suck it up buttercup and get to work. Ill go to bat for this core and this not being all that BS slidemaster said above. Its all hyperbole. Im starting to see it more from non Os fans. At least if you are an Os fan you're ust spazzing out or could be. Anyone from the outside who wants to call this a failure and act like we missed our chance and are doomed to be bad the next 2-5 years then bring it. Ill again prove I have my finger on the pulse of this team and make you look like an idiot

Why is everything always about you? It's weird.

[CantonJester]

Why is everything always about you? It's weird.

 

It’s in his DNA to take things to eleven (and make things personal).

 

People have been banned from message board communities for this type of behavior, FWIW. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Why is everything always about you? It's weird.

I could let my results speak for themselves but I guess this is one where I have to say I told you so. Probably because for 3+ years I felt like I was in a foxhole with Stoner and Phelan believing there was light at the end of the tunnel when everyone wanted to doubt

[TwentyThirtyFive]

It’s in his DNA to take things to eleven (and make things personal).

 

People have been banned from message board communities for this type of behavior, FWIW. 

Not really. Im strong minded and outspoken but I play well with 99% of the board.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Again you show you are nothing but hyperbole and or have no clue about history

And this isnt personal. There is no personal shot here whatsoever. Its just stone cold fact

[JoyinMudville]

This '25 team might be a failure (sure looks that way in the moment)...  but that won't change my opinion of what this core (Henderson, Rutschman, Westburg, Holliday, Cowser, Bradish, Rodriguez) can achieve. 

 

Hyde will be gone. 

 

They'll have to find rotation help. 

Can they extend Cedric for a year or two? Do they want to?

They'll have to make calls on Kjerstad, Mayo, Mountcastle, ROH, TON... 

Basallo up when?  How does his projected usage impact the above?

 

 

Does Rutschman return to '22-'23 levels over the rest of '25, or is he more of '24 and what we've seen so far in '25?

Do Rodriguez and Bradish get back and stay healthy and productive?

 

There's plenty of talent here. Enough to win regularly for years. 

 

Call this year a failure.
Place the blame at Elias' feet. 

 

But no reason imo to believe they have to blow things up and start again. 


 

 

This is Mullins best shot at big money. I think he's going to try to get 3-5 years somewhere.

 

Whether or not it makes sense to keep him here for that long is another question.

[Slidemaster]

I could let my results speak for themselves but I guess this is one where I have to say I told you so. Probably because for 3+ years I felt like I was in a foxhole with Stoner and Phelan believing there was light at the end of the tunnel when everyone wanted to doubt

Boy...have I got bad news for you...

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Simple question.

At what point does the current data overtake past history data? This weak offense, poor baseball fundamentals, lack of accountability, etc has gone on for over 100 games. So the positive look points back to 2022 (when even Elias said they werent ready), 2023 and the first half of last year as to the core being able to contend for years. And even then we were horrible when it counted.

How long do we keep believing that the core is good enough? Till the ASB, thru this season, thru next season? At some point if they haven't turned it around even the die hard positives are going to question this core.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Boy...have I got bad news for you...

No one expects anything less from you. You thinking its all turning bad again beyond 2025 is the absolute best thing every Os fan could hear

[JoyinMudville]

The rebuild has definitely not failed.

 

There's a great batch of talent on this team and several perennial all stars (Gunnar and Jackson for starters).

 

Elias gets a generous D+ for the offseason in my book. I may change my opinion by June when a bunch of these guys are off the IL

[Slidemaster]

The rebuild has definitely not failed.

There's a great batch of talent on this team and several perennial all stars (Gunnar and Jackson for starters).

Elias gets a generous D+ for the offseason in my book. I may change my opinion by June when a bunch of these guys are off the IL

Holliday hasn't made one ASG yet, let alone being a perennial one.

[Slidemaster]

Simple question.

At what point does the current data overtake past history data? This weak offense, poor baseball fundamentals, lack of accountability, etc has gone on for over 100 games. So the positive look points back to 2022 (when even Elias said they werent ready), 2023 and the first half of last year as to the core being able to contend for years. And even then we were horrible when it counted.

How long do we keep believing that the core is good enough? Till the ASB, thru this season, thru next season? At some point if they haven't turned it around even the die hard positives are going to question this core.

We are approaching the point where the amount of bad baseball this core has played will eclipse the amount of good.

And the bad is more recent.

[Slidemaster]

No one expects anything less from you. You thinking its all turning bad again beyond 2025 is the absolute best thing every Os fan could hear

I dont think this core winning again is an impossibility, but they can't just run it back and expect better results. Major changes need to be made.

[BSLChrisStoner]

How long do we keep believing that the core is good enough? Till the ASB, thru this season, thru next season? At some point if they haven't turned it around even the die hard positives are going to question this core.

 

 

Henderson - There is nothing to debate about his ability. 

 

Rutschman - His ceiling seems capped.  Right now it's about figuring out what we should reasonably expect from him. '22 and '23 were very productive.  '24 was not.  '25 has not been so far. 

 

Cowser - Has played 4 games this year.

 

Westburg - Has played 23 games this year. 

 

Holliday - Seems improved over Y1.  He's 21, and has yet to have 100 games in the Majors. 

 

Rodriguez - Hasn't pitched this year.  Injuries are a concern.  When healthy, he's shown to be good, but hasn't reached his perceived ceiling yet.  Can he get healthy, stay available, and hit another gear?

 

Bradish - Was a Top 5 AL starter in '23.  Missed most of '24.  Hasn't pitched this year.  When does he get back? How long does it take to shake the rust? If he gets 10-15 starts here in '25, is he ready to return to '23 levels in '26? 

 

Mayo - 49 ML ab's. 

 

Kjerstad - 219 ML ab's. 

[BobPhelan]

Because the only evidence for why I'm wrong is what you happen to believe?

What tangible, statistical evidence is there that what I'm saying isn't true?

I'm not trying to be an asshole. I'm actually asking. I see no reason for hope.

You ignored my post again.

[Slidemaster]

You ignored my post again.

I didn't, but it isnt really addressing what I'm concerned about. Gunnar might be fine. Holliday might be fine. But Adley has been bad for two years now and Westburg was in a horrible slump when he went down. Cowser isnt elevating this team, though I think he's a reasonable player.

I just dont think the core is that good. I think they're reasonable. I think they can win again. But they aren't a bunch of young stars.

[mweb08]

I think it's a little too early to throw in the towel on the year and a lot too early too do so with the young core.

However, we're at a point where some doubt should be seeping in and it's alright to admit that.

We have to adjust our view and expectations as we get new data. Hopefully this will just be a blip in the path to a a World Series.

The other side exists though and if this team and especially the young core of it collectively disappoints once 162 games are in the books, we can't just wash that away and look at them like we used to as much as we may want to.

[ivanbalt]

The fact that I'm less concerned with the starting pitching (which we all knew would be a problem) than the hitting should tell how far down the toilet this team has gone.

[NewMarketSean]

We're approaching 100 games where they've played sub-500 baseball. They played poorly in second half last year, but  managed to make the playoffs. This year they look completely lost and are on pace for 100+ losses.

 

I think it's fair to consider whether this core is as good as we thought they were and whether Elias is the guy to lead this organization to a WS title.

 

It's obvious Hyde is not the manager to do that. Time to make some changes.

[NewMarketSean]

And if we want to chest thump and say "I was right", I was right about the offense.

 

I was right in a way that someone can't be anymore right.