346 replies to this topic

[SportsGuy]

Good move..while I agree the idea of him being lost is troublesome, putting him in the pen up here is better for now IMO.

[JeffLong]

Bad decision IMO. He said he's lost. He shouldn't be figuring things out up here. If we weren't in a pennant race I could understand but bottom line is Gonzalez is the better pitcher right now.

Here's the thing.

What is the best thing for Arrieta's long-term development? IMO it's obviously staying up and figuring it out in MLB. Won't do him any good to go down and dominate AAA hitters.

What is best for the O's trying to make the playoffs? This one again is obviously to send him down and keep the best players up.


The O's can't give up the future & long-term development of a pitcher just because we're having a good season. If you want to get to the playoffs once - sure, send him down... trade prospects for vets... become the 1997 Orioles.

If you want to make the playoffs multiple times in the near future you do it right... keep your players... help them develop and bring up prospects to fill holes as needed. That's how the best teams do it (Rays, Rangers, Red Sox, etc.)

[mweb08]

Bad decision IMO. He said he's lost. He shouldn't be figuring things out up here. If we weren't in a pennant race I could understand but bottom line is Gonzalez is the better pitcher right now.

Here's the thing.

What is the best thing for Arrieta's long-term development? IMO it's obviously staying up and figuring it out in MLB. Won't do him any good to go down and dominate AAA hitters.

What is best for the O's trying to make the playoffs? This one again is obviously to send him down and keep the best players up.


The O's can't give up the future & long-term development of a pitcher just because we're having a good season. If you want to get to the playoffs once - sure, send him down... trade prospects for vets... become the 1997 Orioles.

If you want to make the playoffs multiple times in the near future you do it right... keep your players... help them develop and bring up prospects to fill holes as needed. That's how the best teams do it (Rays, Rangers, Red Sox, etc.)

If he's truly lost, the minors may be the better place to find himself. Especially as a starter.

[bnickle]

Bad decision IMO. He said he's lost. He shouldn't be figuring things out up here. If we weren't in a pennant race I could understand but bottom line is Gonzalez is the better pitcher right now.

Here's the thing.

What is the best thing for Arrieta's long-term development? IMO it's obviously staying up and figuring it out in MLB. Won't do him any good to go down and dominate AAA hitters.

What is best for the O's trying to make the playoffs? This one again is obviously to send him down and keep the best players up.


The O's can't give up the future & long-term development of a pitcher just because we're having a good season. If you want to get to the playoffs once - sure, send him down... trade prospects for vets... become the 1997 Orioles.

If you want to make the playoffs multiple times in the near future you do it right... keep your players... help them develop and bring up prospects to fill holes as needed. That's how the best teams do it (Rays, Rangers, Red Sox, etc.)

I would argue that sending him to AAA for a couple weeks, or however long it takes, for him to figure things out is not going to stunt his development. Certainly not to the extend it seems you think it would hurt him. Beyond simply having our best pitchers up here everyone should be concerned by the lost comments. It's basically conceding that he can't get ML hitters out right now. He needs confidence in himself and not sure he finds that by staying up here right now.

[JTrea81]

Good move..while I agree the idea of him being lost is troublesome, putting him in the pen up here is better for now IMO.

Agreed, the pen is his future most likely anyway. Might as well see if he can handle the role.

If he can't be a consistent bullpen arm or starter, he's not part of your future.

[JeffLong]

I would argue that sending him to AAA for a couple weeks, or however long it takes, for him to figure things out is not going to stunt his development. Certainly not to the extend it seems you think it would hurt him. Beyond simply having our best pitchers up here everyone should be concerned by the lost comments. It's basically conceding that he can't get ML hitters out right now. He needs confidence in himself and not sure he finds that by staying up here right now.

See, I just disagree. It's not a - I think he'll go backwards if we send him down. It's more that he needs to work it out at the highest level. You didn't see Atlanta send Heyward down when he was slumping, they made him figure it out at the major league level.

Same thing applies here, Arrieta needs to figure it out at the major league level. We're not going to be able to send him down every time he hits a slump in his career. He'll be fine, just needs to build his confidence & tweak a few things. He can do that in the bullpen.

[RShack]

If he's truly lost, the minors may be the better place to find himself. Especially as a starter.

If he's truly lost, he'll let us know that soon enough. Remember, he said that shortly after disappointing himself pretty badly. I wonder what he'd say tomorrow.

I don't know enough about pitching to know how much of this is in his head (some of it, sure... he's been getting rattled way too easily) vs. how much is physical stuff he needs to fix. Does anybody know what the P-coach thinks about it?

Unless there's some compelling reason to send him down, I wouldn't do it. It makes sense to me to let him focus on succeeding in small doses for a while. That way, he can focus intensely on whatever the hell it is, and if he succeeds doing that, well, then that will have proved to be the right thing to do. And if he can't, they'll send him down then.

As for the impact on the team, I think there's more to that than just some runs. It's also the other guys seeing how the team handles him. They don't wanna see Buck let him go out there and implode again and again without doing anything about it. But they don't wanna see the boss be too quick handing out bus tickets either, because they all know it could just as well be them having a hard time they didn't see coming. So, all in all, I think you probably want the least-drastic intervention that seems reasonable.

[PD24]

Here's what I think is going on:

People in the organization think Jake will fare better out of the bullpen. The O's are also looking to acquire a starter from outside the organization, and Britton is looming in the minors.

Matusz
Hammel
Chen
Britton
outside starter
Hunter
Moyer (who wasn't acquired to sit in Norfolk for 4 months)
Tillman

I think the feeling is that Arrieta going down and getting AAA hitters out won't do much for his confidence in the majors. If he can work out his problems in the bullpen, he gets his confidence back that he can get major league hitters out, and eventually works himself into higher leverage situations.

If you need him back in the rotation, great, he's got some confidence back and we'll give it another go. If not, he stays in the bullpen and maybe spends the rest of his career being a dominant set-up man.

[Oriole85]

If you want to make the playoffs multiple times in the near future you do it right... keep your players... help them develop and bring up prospects to fill holes as needed. That's how the best teams do it (Rays, Rangers, Red Sox, etc.)

I don't think that was the problem in 1997 at all (http://www.oobleck.c...ansact1997.html). I look to the 1999 Draft where we had seven first round and supplemental picks and only B-Rob really to show for it, guess you can count Bigbie too. If they had more successful drafts back then we wouldn't be in such bad shape.

[Oriole85]

I'm not a big fan of the whole "confidence" argument, we should be doing what is best for the team and he should be held accountable for his results. I would've sent him down, I don't have a problem with them moving to the 'pen so much as a compromise, but I would've done differently..

[JeffLong]

If you want to make the playoffs multiple times in the near future you do it right... keep your players... help them develop and bring up prospects to fill holes as needed. That's how the best teams do it (Rays, Rangers, Red Sox, etc.)

I don't think that was the problem in 1997 at all (http://www.oobleck.c...ansact1997.html). I look to the 1999 Draft where we had seven first round and supplemental picks and only B-Rob really to show for it, guess you can count Bigbie too. If they had more successful drafts back then we wouldn't be in such bad shape.

That's fair. I was more referencing the thought process from 1997 - 2007 where we were "just a few vets away" every year.

I think we all know that wasn't the case and it's no way to build a baseball team.

[RShack]

I just now read what Jake had to say about going to the BP... sounds to me like he has a sensible view of what's going on... http://www.masnsport... ... llpen.html

Bottom line: he says he was getting all knotted up trying to focus on the mech-things he got wrong on the last pitch and kinda forgot how to focus properly on what he was doing next... sounds to me like his P-slump was giving him a case of snakes-in-his-head.

He sounds relieved to go to the pen for a while... he thinks it will let him get uncomplicated, as coming in from the pen means he just has to come in and let 'er rip... all of which makes sense to me...

[tpjs1]

I think both the long term and short term interests of both the Orioles and Arrieta are served well with him going to the bullpen.

One thing that will help him is the very nature of being in the bullpen: you never know exactly when you will be called upon to pitch. It seems to me that he thinks way too much both between starts and during games and this should help eliminate that over-thinking.

Young pitchers working out their problems pitching out of the bullpen used to be commonplace. It can only help him.

[Chris B]

Well, Arrieta is getting another chance with Matusz sidelined tonight due to his face coming in contact with a ball off an attempted bunt.

[Adam Wolff]

Well, Arrieta is getting another chance with Matusz sidelined tonight due to his face coming in contact with a ball off an attempted bunt.

Would be great to see him take advantage of the opportunity. It's against an awful lineup, so maybe he can.

[Chris B]

Arrieta tonight: 7 IP, 1 ER, 1 BB, 9 K.

Do you (or Buck) give him another shot at starting or is he back to the bullpen?

[Pedro Cerrano]

Yes, I know that one start does not a season make and that he's been bad much more often than he's been good. I also know this was the lowly Pirates.

Still, he looked impressive tonight, highlighted by (I believe) 9 strike-outs. If he took his next turn in the rotation it would be against the Mets.

With Britton still struggling in the minors and no real sexy alternative, I'd give him the ball in 5 days and see if he can't get on a little run.

Maybe, just maybe, the demotion to the pen woke him up...?

[SammyBirdland]

I don't know that we have any better options. The Pirates are bad. I wish we were in the Central.

[Chris B]

I don't know that we have any better options. The Pirates are bad. I wish we were in the Central.

AL or NL Central. I really wouldn't care because they both are bad.

[tpjs1]

Going to the 'pen didn't hurt and starting on short notice gave him less time to think...and think...and think. So he went out and just pitched. Yes, give him another start!