3373 replies to this topic

[You Play to Win the Game]

Like Elias knew he was about to hit a skid and jumped on an early offer.

A village idiot could figure that out. Let's not get carried away here. 

 

Still, tip of the cap to get what he got for him. I'm surprised about the return.

[BobPhelan]

Of course I do. I'm just bitter about how this year has gone and how Elias does business.

https://x.com/Nick_V...534052776329301

[Slidemaster]

https://x.com/Nick_V...534052776329301

So, the takeaway here is "why try to win now, when you can always be trying to win later?"

I don't understand the point this person is trying to make. Seems like it's "don't worry about making upgrades because it doesn't change the percentage to win the World Series by enough. Stock for the future instead."

Also, the fallacy that you can't try to win now while setting yourself up to win later is BS. Do both. Good GMs do both.

[hallas]

So, the takeaway here is "why try to win now, when you can always be trying to win later?"

I don't understand the point this person is trying to make. Seems like it's "don't worry about making upgrades because it doesn't change the percentage to win the World Series by enough. Stock for the future instead."

Also, the fallacy that you can't try to win now while setting yourself up to win later is BS. Do both. Good GMs do both.

 

 

Setting yourself up to win now and later also comes down to choosing your warriors better.

 

He traded the wrong prospects in more than a couple of cases.  Would Florida have accepted Kjerstad for Rogers?  I think both last year's and this year's team would have looked a lot better if we had Norby and Stowers, especially considering how well Stowers is hitting.  And having Norby as depth would have been great given all the injuries we've had.  Meanwhile Kjerstad has looked like butt.

 

He cant keep flopping on the prospects he keeps around.

[BobPhelan]

So, the takeaway here is "why try to win now, when you can always be trying to win later?"

I don't understand the point this person is trying to make. Seems like it's "don't worry about making upgrades because it doesn't change the percentage to win the World Series by enough. Stock for the future instead."

Also, the fallacy that you can't try to win now while setting yourself up to win later is BS. Do both. Good GMs do both.

 

I agree good GMs do both. Difference is I think that is what this FO is attempting to do. I lean closer to the 50/50 line I would guess where a lot of fans are more 80/20 in favor of win now.

[Slidemaster]

I agree good GMs do both. Difference is I think that is what this FO is attempting to do. I lean closer to the 50/50 line I would guess where a lot of fans are more 80/20 in favor of win now.

I think 50/50 might be a little generous, but regardless. I don't see the point of aiming to open a windows if you're never going to push to win a championship when it's open. I think the mindset of "just build a team that can make the playoffs and hope you get lucky" is a great way to always be disappointed.

[BobPhelan]

I think 50/50 might be a little generous, but regardless. I don't see the point of aiming to open a windows if you're never going to push to win a championship when it's open. I think the mindset of "just build a team that can make the playoffs and hope you get lucky" is a great way to always be disappointed.

 

Playoffs are a crapshoot, I think being good enough to be on the dance floor every/most years is the best strategy. Obviously you want every year's team to be as good as possible but keeping the window open as long as possible and eventually only needing a quick "rebuild" when necessary is the goal.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

The Yanks have been going all in every year the last 20 years. How has that worked out. The Dodgers were the same way until recently. And we know these are two franchises that go all in in a way the Os could only dream of doing.

[Slidemaster]

Playoffs are a crapshoot, I think being good enough to be on the dance floor every/most years is the best strategy. Obviously you want every year's team to be as good as possible but keeping the window open as long as possible and eventually only needing a quick "rebuild" when necessary is the goal.

I think this might have been true with previous ownership, but by all accounts, current ownership is willing to spend on the team to extend windows and open them more quickly. They no longer have to operate as though they are the Pirates or the Rays. Choosing to do so anyway is just a misusage of resources.

Trade prospects for premium assets now. Sign FAs. Use every avenue to improve. Elias thus far has not done that outside of the exceptions that was Burnes.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

The Yanks have been going all in every year the last 20 years. How has that worked out. The Dodgers were the same way until recently. And we know these are two franchises that go all in in a way the Os could only dream of doing.

The emphasis here is not to be foolish. The Os were willing to give Burnes a very nice 4 year deal last year. The highest AAV ever for a pitcher. Thin line between pushing the enevelope a bit and being foolish

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Playoffs are a crapshoot, I think being good enough to be on the dance floor every/most years is the best strategy. Obviously you want every year's team to be as good as possible but keeping the window open as long as possible and eventually only needing a quick "rebuild" when necessary is the goal.

I am in the middle on this one. Sure, playoffs are a bit of a crapshoot. But that should not be a reason the fix obvious shortfalls in your roster. And I think Elias had been LTA in that regards especially with his fixation on keeping young talent even when they are probably better used for trades.

[Slidemaster]

The Yanks have been going all in every year the last 20 years. How has that worked out. The Dodgers were the same way until recently. And we know these are two franchises that go all in in a way the Os could only dream of doing.

They both have more championships in that time than the O's do.

Nobody ever said to go "all-in" every year, but you also can't just operate year in and year out like your chances to win are the same. There is a time and a place to go for it a little harder.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

It should be noted again that the payroll took a huge leap this year.  You can certainly argue it wasnt money well spent, but money spent on Burnes and Santander to this point wouldnt have been well spent either.  

 

 

 

The annoying thing for me is that fans dont just want you to spend money. They want to look back 3 or 6 months later and have spent it on the FAs that are performing. Just be able to see the future dummy. Snell, Burnes, Flaherty, Manaea have been hurt or stink. Yeah, but you should have used it on Fried, Eovaldi, and Kikuchi instead. Dummy. Santander and ONeill suck. Yeah, you should have spent on Teo and Laureano instead. Oh wait, scratch that last name

[TwentyThirtyFive]

When it comes to prospects, sure you are going to trade some of them for established players at times. It should be noted however that young cost controlled and teamed controlled players for 6 or 7 years are the most valuable assets in baseball when they perform in MLB. So yes, the thought of  "you cant play them all and some are gonna fail" is true. You better be commited on who it is you are keeping and be confident because once you start to establish themselves like Cowser, Westy, Holliday have you have valuable commodities for the next 4 or 5 years