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2024 Game 5: 10/6 @ Cincinnati 1PM


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#281 hallas

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Posted 06 October 2024 - 09:06 PM

Imagine you (and many others) would have been confident saying that about McDonald at this point two years ago, too.


By week 6 or 7 MacDonald looked like he had figured things out.

It remains to be seen if Orr will but right now his learning curve appears to be much steeper, at least when it comes to the secondary.

#282 cprenegade

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Posted 06 October 2024 - 09:11 PM

Imagine you (and many others) would have been confident saying that about McDonald at this point two years ago, too.

 

I agree and I was saying the same thing about McDonald.  But one important difference is that McDonald held the same job with Michigan prior to getting the job with the Ravens.  He was making the jump from college to pro, but doing the same job.  Orr is making the jump to doing the job for the first time.  That's not bad if you can grow with the team, but the Ravens are built for winning now.  Having a DC that needs to suffer growing pains on the way will not help them get by teams like KC in the playoffs.  If he doesn't learn quickly it could cost the team playoff position and in January when it really counts.  


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#283 Mackus

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Posted 07 October 2024 - 06:08 AM

I agree and I was saying the same thing about McDonald. But one important difference is that McDonald held the same job with Michigan prior to getting the job with the Ravens. He was making the jump from college to pro, but doing the same job. Orr is making the jump to doing the job for the first time. That's not bad if you can grow with the team, but the Ravens are built for winning now. Having a DC that needs to suffer growing pains on the way will not help them get by teams like KC in the playoffs. If he doesn't learn quickly it could cost the team playoff position and in January when it really counts.

Most DCs get elevated from position coaches, not hired from colleges. And McDonald had a whopping 1 year of college experience.

I just don't think the learning curve is that steep compared to Orr's previous experience and the Ravens have a long history of finding good DCs. I've got zero long-term, and that means the second half of this season, concerns about Orr. That doesn't mean I have zero concerns about the defense, but Orr won't be a hindrance in unlocking them.

#284 DuffMan

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Posted 07 October 2024 - 06:22 AM

Zach Orr wasn't the reason the Defense missed those tackles on the 75 yard TD in the 4th quarter.


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#285 Mackus

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Posted 07 October 2024 - 06:53 AM

By week 6 or 7 MacDonald looked like he had figured things out.

It remains to be seen if Orr will but right now his learning curve appears to be much steeper, at least when it comes to the secondary.

 

Week 6 was the meltdown against the Giants, so I don't agree with your statement.  Orr's defense won't necessarily follow the same path, but frankly I'm not even sure the defensive problems have been Orr's fault.  



#286 Mackus

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Posted 07 October 2024 - 07:03 AM

Zach Orr wasn't the reason the Defense missed those tackles on the 75 yard TD in the 4th quarter.

 

Also doubt he was the reason Eddie Jackson was out of position on Chase's TD at the end of the first half.  

 

Orr's blitzes haven't seemed to get home as well as McDonald's did last season is the only thing I think we've seen relatively often that is more or less directly attributable to the DC.  It's entirely plausible that the issues in the secondary are because Orr's not coaching them properly, but I tend to think its been more a combination of individual mistakes.  In either case, the secondary is loaded with talent, so as long as they stay healthy I think those mistakes can be cleaned up.

 

Roquon has seemed a bit less dominant to me this year than in past years.  Not sure if that's real or imagined, or if real, what the cause might be.  He did make a couple real nice plays yesterday, so that was good to see.



#287 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 07 October 2024 - 09:48 AM

Imagine you (and many others) would have been confident saying that about McDonald at this point two years ago, too.


That game against Miami in ‘22 where they gave up 28 4th Qtr points comes to mind. I’ll wait for a larger body of work before judging Orr.



#288 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 07 October 2024 - 10:04 AM

The defense had a rough day overall, but give them credit for making plays when it mattered. Humphrey’s pick on the slant route saved the game, then Madubuike’s sack followed by Wiggins’s pass breakup after they tied it foiled any plans Cincinnati had to win it in regulation.


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#289 hallas

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Posted 07 October 2024 - 11:18 AM

Week 6 was the meltdown against the Giants, so I don't agree with your statement. Orr's defense won't necessarily follow the same path, but frankly I'm not even sure the defensive problems have been Orr's fault.


That meltdown was mostly on Lamar, who threw a 4th quarter pick and then got sack fumbled on their last possession. I don't think anyone was blaming MacDonald for that game.

#290 Mackus

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Posted 07 October 2024 - 11:28 AM

That meltdown was mostly on Lamar, who threw a 4th quarter pick and then got sack fumbled on their last possession. I don't think anyone was blaming MacDonald for that game.

 

I think you're probably forgetting some of the critiques, especially since we'd seen 4th quarter defensive breakdowns very recently before.  The defense allowed a long TD drive in the 4th and then also allowed a short-field TD after the pick rather than finding a way to buckle down.  Lamar's mistakes certainly contributed significantly to the loss, in particular the interception was as bad a one as he's ever hard, but the defense also gave it up in the 4th quarter.



#291 Slidemaster

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Posted 07 October 2024 - 11:31 AM


That meltdown was mostly on Lamar, who threw a 4th quarter pick and then got sack fumbled on their last possession. I don't think anyone was blaming MacDonald for that game.

People absolutely blamed the defense, and rightfully so. There's never a reason to give up that many points in a quarter, even with turnovers. Lamar certainly did contribute though.

#292 makoman

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Posted 07 October 2024 - 11:53 AM

I don't think anyone thought the 2022 defense was fine until Roquan showed up. I feel like tackling was poor and miscommunication common...not so different from now, though Roquan is already here. Who knows.

 

FWIW, PFF thinks Williams and Jackson have been really bad. Roquan too, but PFF has often disliked Roquan. Again, who knows.

 

I think the skill level of everyone is mostly good. Last week was great, so the potential is there. 


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#293 85Knight

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Posted 07 October 2024 - 12:10 PM

The pass rush didn't have the best of days either even though they came through in the end. You're not gonna slow Cincy down without consistent pressure on Burrow.




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