18 replies to this topic

[BSLChrisStoner]

Balt Sun: Cleveland responds to Harbaugh's assessment
https://www.baltimor...tZ5AUeoPenKpgcg

 

“If Ben [Cleveland] had earned the job at right guard, he’d be the starting right guard,” Harbaugh said.

 

When Tyler Linderbaum missed time in camp with a neck injury, Harbaugh slid Cleveland over to center. Meanwhile, Faleele, who took reps at right tackle down the stretch last season while Morgan Moses nursed a biceps injury, moved over to right guard.

 

He beat out Cleveland for the starting job, Harbaugh said, “just a fact, straight up, matter of fact,” based on what they’ve seen on tape.

 

But Cleveland is eager for an opportunity — there or elsewhere on the line — if the opportunity presents itself.

 

“There weren’t a whole lot of right guard reps taken by me during camp just because of injury and all the above,” Cleveland told The Baltimore Sun, “so just staying ready for when my number gets called to go in and play.”

 

Harbaugh made his declaration clear (with the amendment that things can change). So, how would Cleveland evaluate his play this summer and through the infancy of the season?

 

“I feel like I’ve been my most consistent and most proactive throughout camp,” Cleveland told The Sun. “It’s been a struggle having to move around positions with injuries and stuff like that. But as far as adapting to other positions and just playing where I’m asked, I feel like I’ve been extremely consistent and competitive.”

[Ravens2006]

Faalele has looked glacially slow at side to side movement. That's a concern of course for an OT, but you kind of hope the slightly less space to occupy at OG vs OT would help cover horizontal movement weaknesses a bit.  With Faalele it doesn't.  Ravens had another guy a few years ago in the same tier, can't remember the name, but he was so slow to react he once failed to even start moving while a DT across from him was already by him making a stop in the backfield.  Daniel looks even worse to me right now.

[BaltBird 24]

Tyree Phillips?

[Ravens2006]

Tyree Phillips?

Winner winner...

[jamesdean]

If I'm Harbaugh, Cleveland starts in Dallas. He sure as hell can't do any worse than what they've seen out of Faalele. Maybe Cleveland is just one of those players that how he practices doesn't translate to game day. When he was out there last year, he played decently. I don't get why he's always in the doghouse. Harbaugh needs to put his ego aside and do what's best for the OL. Especially, with them looking down the barrel of an 0-3 start.

[BaltBird 24]

One thing I've always hated about Harbaugh was his uncanny knack of throwing young players into the doghouse and rarely giving them an opportunity afterwards. Cleveland is a prime example. Harbaugh has seemed to have it out for him since day one.

Falele must be a great practice player and that just tickles John's fancy.

[makoman]

One thing I've always hated about Harbaugh was his uncanny knack of throwing young players into the doghouse and rarely giving them an opportunity afterwards. Cleveland is a prime example. Harbaugh has seemed to have it out for him since day one.

Falele must be a great practice player and that just tickles John's fancy.

Oddly enough, Harbaugh was the one who really wanted him in the draft. I believe I read he tried to get EDC to trade up for him. I guess coming in overweight and failing the conditioning test changed that.

[jamesdean]

One thing I've always hated about Harbaugh was his uncanny knack of throwing young players into the doghouse and rarely giving them an opportunity afterwards. Cleveland is a prime example. Harbaugh has seemed to have it out for him since day one.

Falele must be a great practice player and that just tickles John's fancy.

Well, he sure has sucked during games.  Same as last year. 

[Biggsy]

Well, he sure has sucked during games. Same as last year.

That doesn't seem to matter when it comes to Harbaugh and frustratingly playing awful lineman. (Hurst, Phillips, now Faalele)

It's also egregious for Harbaugh to say there was any kind of true competition. Cleveland was pushed in to center for most of training camp. How can you say it was a fair competition when one guy got almost 0 reps at the position he's battling for? It's crap like this that annoys the hell out of me with Harbaugh. He legitimately thinks the general public lacks the ability to critically think, and he just says BS thinking no one can see through it.

[jamesdean]

That doesn't seem to matter when it comes to Harbaugh and frustratingly playing awful lineman. (Hurst, Phillips, now Faalele)

It's also egregious for Harbaugh to say there was any kind of true competition. Cleveland was pushed in to center for most of training camp. How can you say it was a fair competition when one guy got almost 0 reps at the position he's battling for? It's crap like this that annoys the hell out of me with Harbaugh. He legitimately thinks the general public lacks the ability to critically think, and he just says BS thinking no one can see through it.

Harbaugh's had a hard on for practice performance right from the beginning and if you don't do it during the week and are on the bubble of fighting for a position, you're pretty much toast in his eyes.  The only real chance Cleveland has at this point, is if Faalele or some other OL gets hurt.  Too bad because Lamar's going to be running for his life every week. 

[Mackus]

The 50+ yard kick stats this year are insane.  League is 35/39 (90%), with Tucker's 0/2 being half the misses.  But I think that's an early season fluke and not some new trend that all kicks go through the uprights.  Last year the league kicked 158/230 (69%) from 50+ and I doubt everyone in the league (but Tucker) mastered kicking from deep over the offseason.

 

Do think Tucker's issues are real, but don't think the bar he needs to be held against is near perfection.  2/3 from 50+ is a good target, especially for as many games as he plays outdoors.

[You Play to Win the Game]

The 50+ yard kick stats this year are insane.  League is 35/39 (90%), with Tucker's 0/2 being half the misses.  But I think that's an early season fluke and not some new trend that all kicks go through the uprights.  Last year the league kicked 158/230 (69%) from 50+ and I doubt everyone in the league (but Tucker) mastered kicking from deep over the offseason.

 

Do think Tucker's issues are real, but don't think the bar he needs to be held against is near perfection.  2/3 from 50+ is a good target, especially for as many games as he plays outdoors.

I agree - Tucker is at 11% for his last 9 kicks over 50 yards. But he doesn't have to be at 90% to be useful. He does need to be a lot better. It may be time to move on after this season. That's costly to not have 50+ in the bag if that ends up being the case.

[Mackus]

I agree - Tucker is at 11% for his last 9 kicks over 50 yards. But he doesn't have to be at 90% to be useful. He does need to be a lot better. It may be time to move on after this season. That's costly to not have 50+ in the bag if that ends up being the case.

 

Its more money against the cap to release him than to keep him, so they won't be moving on unless he starts missing from inside 50, too, and even then I think they'd carry him into 2025 to see if he bounces back.  Could see talking to him about a salary reduction in 2025 if he has a bad season, but there isn't much leverage as you're likely not cutting him if he says no.

 

I think this issue likely goes away.  He might not be a weapon from 50+ anymore, but he's still very reliable inside and I'm skeptical that we can replace him with someone better.  If there were cap savings, it'd be a more challenging decision.

[makoman]

I agree - Tucker is at 11% for his last 9 kicks over 50 yards. But he doesn't have to be at 90% to be useful. He does need to be a lot better. It may be time to move on after this season. That's costly to not have 50+ in the bag if that ends up being the case.

I know it hurts the team to not have those 50+ chances, but I'd really be surprised they pay 7.5M in dead money when it's 7M to keep him, assuming he remains automatic inside 50. While it was a different time, Stover had several years with no 50+ attempts and only made one 50+ in his last four years here. I think they will just adjust the offense, i.e. stop the attempts and just go/punt more, if that's what his results are telling them to do. After next year he's more cuttable. 

[You Play to Win the Game]

Its more money against the cap to release him than to keep him, so they won't be moving on unless he starts missing from inside 50, too, and even then I think they'd carry him into 2025 to see if he bounces back. Could see talking to him about a salary reduction in 2025 if he has a bad season, but there isn't much leverage as you're likely not cutting him if he says no.

I think this issue likely goes away. He might not be a weapon from 50+ anymore, but he's still very reliable inside and I'm skeptical that we can replace him with someone better. If there were cap savings, it'd be a more challenging decision.

Definitely good point regarding the finding someone better angle, although I think odds these days are that we could. We’re in a golden era of kickers IMO.

Not having 50+ in the bag can literally cost you a postseason game. And a SB run. You guys remember our first SB run? Al Del Greco was arguably the best player on our team on that trip to Tennessee.

[Mackus]

Definitely good point regarding the finding someone better angle, although I think odds these days are that we could. We’re in a golden era of kickers IMO.

Not having 50+ in the bag can literally cost you a postseason game. And a SB run. You guys remember our first SB run? Al Del Greco was arguably the best player on our team on that trip to Tennessee.

 

I think 50+ is still in the bag, just not automatic.  Like I'm more confident in an 80% FT shooter to sink a 1-and-1 but a 70% FT shooter can also do it.  I know his recent numbers are really bad, maybe living in the past, but I don't feel a lack of confidence each time he goes out.  More of a "not again..." after he's missed.  I think he'll get it figured out, but is an issue to address if he can't.  Also an issue if they lose confidence in him and don't even try.

 

Agree that if we think there is an upgrade available that it should be pursued because we've got the type of goals that have very narrow margins so any improving you can do is worth the squeeze.  But I have a hard time imagining we find a cheap/free player who we think is better than Tucker for 2025 and anyone who is a vet that we're confident is an upgrade is gonna cost a non-trivial amount on top of needing to basically pay Tucker to go away.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I think 50+ is still in the bag, just not automatic.  Like I'm more confident in an 80% FT shooter to sink a 1-and-1 but a 70% FT shooter can also do it.  I know his recent numbers are really bad, maybe living in the past, but I don't feel a lack of confidence each time he goes out.  More of a "not again..." after he's missed.  I think he'll get it figured out, but is an issue to address if he can't.  Also an issue if they lose confidence in him and don't even try.

 

Agree that if we think there is an upgrade available that it should be pursued because we've got the type of goals that have very narrow margins so any improving you can do is worth the squeeze.  But I have a hard time imagining we find a cheap/free player who we think is better than Tucker for 2025 and anyone who is a vet that we're confident is an upgrade is gonna cost a non-trivial amount on top of needing to basically pay Tucker to go away.

I mean maybe I'm being too pessimistic, but there's a reason he had so few attempts last year. And when a problem stretches over multiple years, it's time to look at it straight in the eye IMO. They don't seem to trust him nearly as much from 50+, which says a lot in and of itself. But it isn't hopeless. Not yet. I'm hoping for a rebound. Love me some Tucker. 

[hallas]

it sounds like there are going to be personnel changes to the line.  Maybe it's Cleveland szn?

[jamesdean]

it sounds like there are going to be personnel changes to the line.  Maybe it's Cleveland szn?

Let's hope John boy came to his senses. Or maybe Cleveland had a good week of practice. SMDH