480 replies to this topic

[TwentyThirtyFive]

OK tell that to RG3 who played here. Some of you guys dont have a damn clue.  I gotta just walk away from some of these football discussions. The day will come when Ravens fans  will really experience bad coaching and sustained mediocrity- failure. Then maybe it will dawn on people how good they had it. Spoiled entitled fanbase

[NewMarketSean]

If Lamar gets hurt tell me how high expectations would be. 

 

Harbaugh is a solid coach with some glaring weaknesses but I outright reject the idea that he's mostly responsible for this team's success and expectations.

 

When we've had a good QB we've been good. When he had Flacco passing 50 times a game, or a back-up QB, the teams have been pretty bad.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Nobody wins with poor QB play. But look at someone like TOmlin who consistently keeps his teams heads above water even with mediocre to subpar QB play. Im fully convinced Harbaugh would do the same. Nobody is saying Lamar isnt the most important player on the team who drives the wins. What I am saying is that there are numerous orgs and coaching staffs who would not have got out of Lamar what Harbaugh's program has got out of Lamar.  Youve never heard me rave about Harbaugh's game management. His program building is top notch and its more imprtant than his game day stuff. He's partly responsible along with the GM and owner for his coordinators and coaches but those coordinators and coaches have a  bigger impact than him on gameday.

[ivanbalt]

Clearly someone missed 2021 and 2022 after Lamar went down.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Clearly someone missed 2021 and 2022 after Lamar went down.

Oh thats right. He had a Pro Bowl QB in Huntley and couldnt win with him. Oh wow. You got me. Wait what that Pro Bowl QB got no money in FA this year, was cut in training camp and is now on a practice squad. 

[makoman]

It's just a weird comment. "Expectations are high because of Harbaugh." RG3 wasn't here when they were .500 over 4 seasons.  Expectations around 2017 were that we might make the playoffs. I don't remember any expectations of contending for the Super Bowl. Was Harbs not any good then?

 

Tomlin is a good coach, probably better than Harbaugh. Expectations for Pittsburgh are that they might make the playoffs. No one sees them as a Super Bowl contender because of the QB situation. Why aren't expectations higher because of Tomlin?

 

Why weren't the Pats expected to be good last year? Isn't Belichick good? Well it doesn't matter if the players suck.

 

I'm not even a Harb hater. I've made the same "grass isn't always greener" arguments before too and he's probably a HOFer. And yeah, a lot of the reason the org is considered great is because of what he's done. But I'm starting to think he's getting stale, and the big game/playoff panicking is getting old. Slide thinks it's a Lamar problem, but this has gone on for a long time before Lamar. Cundiff happened because we didn't use a time out for some reason. We probably blow the Super Bowl if Roman calls a few runs on the goal line. Anyway, I don't think he's bad or anything, but I also don't see why he's indispensable. I trust EDC to find somebody good and to be able to maintain that good program.

[ivanbalt]

Oh thats right. He had a Pro Bowl QB in Huntley and couldnt win with him. Oh wow. You got me. Wait what that Pro Bowl QB got no money in FA this year, was cut in training camp and is now on a practice squad. 

This was your quote: "Nobody wins with poor QB play. But look at someone like TOmlin who consistently keeps his teams heads above water even with mediocre to subpar QB play. Im fully convinced Harbaugh would do the same."
 

I provided two examples where that didn't happen.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Seems Harbaugh is really good at the aspects of coaching that fans never get to see. Maybe when Hard Knocks does their in-season show on the AFC North we’ll get to learn some things about the inner workings and the impact he has. But the guy is a terrible in-game tactician, and that’s the part fans do see, so I get the negative opinions.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I dont mind the stale argument with him. I dont think the timing is right. There is probably a 3 or 4 year window with Lamar. Starting completely over at HC just doesnt feel right. I wouldnt expect to do better than Harbaugh and even if we did as good or better it would take time. I dont think anyone is coming in and winning a SB year 1. And thats the goal right. The mindset of so many Ravens fans is SB or bust. Once this window closes if we dont reach our goal and its time to regroup Id be much more open to going a different direction at HC. I was actually getting to that stage as with Harbaugh as the Flacco era was ending and said as much here. The transition to Lamar. The work that was done with him and the immediate success obviously completely changed my mind. Thats RG3s point here. You obviously need the horses and we all know that. You also need the culture. 

[Mackus]

An in-season change I think your argument makes sense, but we could hire a new coach and have SB aspirations with Lamar in 2025.  If John retires, I don't think the team would be forced to squander any of Lamar's window moving forward.  It doesn't have to take time, IMO.  It didn't take any time when John got here, for example.

 

I also think the window for Lamar is longer than 3-4 years.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

This was your quote: "Nobody wins with poor QB play. But look at someone like TOmlin who consistently keeps his teams heads above water even with mediocre to subpar QB play. Im fully convinced Harbaugh would do the same."
 

I provided two examples where that didn't happen.

And Huntley couldnt cut it as a 3rd stringer so he doesnt qualify as a mediocre option at QB. Nobody is ever handing Huntley a starting gig. Unlike you know Pickett or Wilson or Fields. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

An in-season change I think your argument makes sense, but we could hire a new coach and have SB aspirations with Lamar in 2025.  If John retires, I don't think the team would be forced to squander any of Lamar's window moving forward.  It doesn't have to take time, IMO.  It didn't take any time when John got here, for example.

Fair enough point but that again speaks to the work Harbaugh did in '08. I think it would be tough to start over with a whole new staff and culture and team building in '25 and expect a SB run. The guy who was next would have to be really good. And again the SB is the next step. Even if your argument is Harbs is stale and cant get over the hump he is a year removed from a 1 seed and Champ game. So you better hit a HR because the Super Bowl is the hump youre looking to improve upon over Harbaugh

[ivanbalt]

And Huntley couldnt cut it as a 3rd stringer so he doesnt qualify as a mediocre option at QB. Nobody is ever handing Huntley a starting gig. Unlike you know Pickett or Wilson or Fields. 

Huntley was serviceable enough during those two seasons.  Hell, some people thought he could replace Lamar.  A number of the losses can clearly be blamed on the coaches.

[Ravens2006]

Seems Harbaugh is really good at the aspects of coaching that fans never get to see. Maybe when Hard Knocks does their in-season show on the AFC North we’ll get to learn some things about the inner workings and the impact he has. But the guy is a terrible in-game tactician, and that’s the part fans do see, so I get the negative opinions.

 

Yeah, I'm sure he's overall well-liked by his players. The story of the organization for many years has been that it's well run, respectful, treats the players "like men", etc.  That's all great.  He doesn't typically criticize players to the media (either directly or behind the scenes), which goes a long way towards keeping the respect of your locker room.  He came as close as he ever does with his Ben Cleveland comments the other day, and that wasn't headline caliber stuff.  I've always liked that about him, and think it's kinda crazy fans and some media expect / want to hear him at the podium 15 minutes after the final gun raking players over the coals for their failures.  You rarely hear a former player truly bash the organization after they're gone.  Closest I can remember to that would be Derek Wolfe and Matt Judon and a couple others bashing Steve Saunders after they left.  Bernard Pollard had some beef I don't fully recall.  But overall they seem to run a ship that players respect playing / working for.

 

But game day matters.  In-game decisions matter a lot.  It's a huge part of the job.  That stuff helps tip the scales sometimes when execution could go either way.  Or when decisions put your players in a less positive situation to succeed.  

 

That's where John is on game day.  When is enough enough?  I guess never for Steve Bisciotti's taste.  But it's not impossible to find another head coach who can maintain the organizational structure and respect, while also being a more beneficial piece on "Sundays" too.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Ill leave my final thoughts on a potential Harbaugh firing like this. I trust Bischotti, Oz, EDC here. If and when they make that call its good with me. if they dont make that call its good with me. Bischotti showed with Billick that he knew the time was right.  They made the hire of John in the first place. From what I understand he was also the shotcaller on bringing Kubiak into the fold. Flacco's best year statistically. I think Steve in particular is really good with these things. If the boss  says its time then so be it. 

[BSLChrisStoner]

The Ravens are going to win Sunday, and if Jackson suits up 17 times, they are winning at least 11 games.

[Slidemaster]

I think Micah Parsons eats this O-line for lunch and is the single most impactful player on either team.

[Biggsy]

I think Micah Parsons eats this O-line for lunch and is the single most impactful player on either team.

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Picking one of, if not the best pass rusher in the NFL to beat a clear weakness. Really going out on a limb there.


On a serious note, if Dallas is smart, they line Parsons up over RT all day. Stanley has been playing like his vintage all-pro self. If Ravens start Mekari, Parsons will have a party in the backfield all day against the right side.

[You Play to Win the Game]

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Picking one of, if not the best pass rusher in the NFL to beat a clear weakness. Really going out on a limb there.


On a serious note, if Dallas is smart, they line Parsons up over RT all day. Stanley has been playing like his vintage all-pro self. If Ravens start Mekari, Parsons will have a party in the backfield all day against the right side.

 

First, lol at the first paragraph.

 

Second, Stanley needs to channel his Adley Rutschman at the '23 All Star Derby and be ready to move between left & right tackle depending on where Parsons is.

 

I do think teams, even with suspect lines, can scheme up a plan to deal with a guy like that. But if there other pass rushers, interior line are getting good push as well, it's going to be a long day.

[Slidemaster]

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Picking one of, if not the best pass rusher in the NFL to beat a clear weakness. Really going out on a limb there.


On a serious note, if Dallas is smart, they line Parsons up over RT all day. Stanley has been playing like his vintage all-pro self. If Ravens start Mekari, Parsons will have a party in the backfield all day against the right side.

I didn't call it a hot take. I just think it's going to happen. Clearly you agree there's a real chance of it too.

So what's your point?