27 replies to this topic

[Ravens2006]

https://www.wbal.com...ame-management/

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Haha. Sure. They dont like their ST guy all that much

[BSLMikeLowe]

When it comes to replay challenge decisions, there's only one possible direction Rosburg can take things.

[Ravens2006]

Preston for once asks a good question: "If Ravens are hiring Jerry Rosburg for game management role, what does head coach John Harbaugh actually do on game day?"

[TwentyThirtyFive]

The howling at the moon is funny. Enjoy the incoming extension Harbs haters

[SonicAttack]

Preston for once asks a good question: "If Ravens are hiring Jerry Rosburg for game management role, what does head coach John Harbaugh actually do on game day?"

Dancing?  

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Wins a lot of games for being such an inferior game day coach. I get it a guy can get lucky for a year. See Brandon Hyde winning 101. But John has a 62% win rate over 16 years. Kinda thinking there isnt much room to call that a fluke.

[Mackus]

Wins a lot of games for being such an inferior game day coach. I get it a guy can get lucky for a year. See Brandon Hyde winning 101. But John has a 62% win rate over 16 years. Kinda thinking there isnt much room to call that a fluke.

 

Or that he's such a good Mon-Sat coach and always hires competent coordinators to call plays that even if he himself is a net negative on gameday due to questionable go/kick/punt, clock management and challenge decisions, that the overall picture is still very high quality.

 

That's what I think. I'm generally in favor of his go/kick/punt choices but think he's below average at clock management and very bad at challenge decisions.  But still think he's an excellent coach because of all the things he oversees during the week that raise the overall level of the team.  I don't think his flaws are fatal, though I do understand those that are ready for someone with different flaws.  He's definitely incapable of fixing the flaws, as we've seen them bite the team repeatedly, so it's either live with them or move on. 

 

Always having had a good (now a great) QB and a good overall roster helps his record, too.  A big part of his winning percentage is influenced by Ozzie and DeCosta.  But his teams always play hard and usually play smart (last week a rare example of undisciplined play), so he gets a lot of share in the success.

[BSLMikeLowe]

If this move is about Harbaugh recognizing his primary shortcoming, and bringing in someone who will improve upon that, then that's the sign of a good coach/leader.

[jamesdean]

Preston for once asks a good question: "If Ravens are hiring Jerry Rosburg for game management role, what does head coach John Harbaugh actually do on game day?"

Waits for fumbles so he can send another player into Shawshank Purgatory.  

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Or that he's such a good Mon-Sat coach and always hires competent coordinators to call plays that even if he himself is a net negative on gameday due to questionable go/kick/punt, clock management and challenge decisions, that the overall picture is still very high quality.

That's what I think. I'm generally in favor of his go/kick/punt choices but think he's below average at clock management and very bad at challenge decisions. But still think he's an excellent coach because of all the things he oversees during the week that raise the overall level of the team. I don't think his flaws are fatal, though I do understand those that are ready for someone with different flaws. He's definitely incapable of fixing the flaws, as we've seen them bite the team repeatedly, so it's either live with them or move on.

Always having had a good (now a great) QB and a good overall roster helps his record, too. A big part of his winning percentage is influenced by Ozzie and DeCosta. But his teams always play hard and usually play smart (last week a rare example of undisciplined play), so he gets a lot of share in the success.

IMO margins are too thin in the NFL and too many games are close to think an incompetent or even poor in game coach can win at this clip. I wouldnt pick nits if people called him below avg. Id also advise people to watch more games, or at least listen to more fans, from around the league. Id be surprised if a single fanbase has a majority of its fans think their head coach is a good game day coach. If that does exist its a unicorn situation.

[Ravens2006]

If this move is about Harbaugh recognizing his primary shortcoming, and bringing in someone who will improve upon that, then that's the sign of a good coach/leader.

If it is indeed a John initiated move, I respect it greatly. I have my doubts that he walked in to the castle and said "I could use an extra set of eyes and ears to work with on game day". But we'll probably never know. Either way, I like the fact that someone recognizes a shortcoming that doesn't wear a number on Sundays, and they're all together on addressing it.

Rosburg's daughter has been as assistant to John for a couple years, interestingly enough...

[BSLMikeLowe]

Interesting article on coaches' records on challenges.

 

Harbaugh is clearly bottom-third among active HCs in challenge success rate. It was written prior to the start of the 2023 season, but he was 0-for-3 this past season so he obviously did not improve his standing. What's interesting is there are three coaches below him who each have at least 1 SB, and each has multiple SB appearances (McVay, Tomlin, Belichick).

 

So obviously being successful at challenges (or not) is far from an end-all-be-all. Also importantly, these numbers don't account for plays in which a coach should have challenged and didn't. Still, anything you can do that potentially improves at the margins is a move worth making.

[Mackus]

IMO margins are too thin in the NFL and too many games are close to think an incompetent or even poor in game coach can win at this clip. I wouldnt pick nits if people called him below avg. Id also advise people to watch more games, or at least listen to more fans, from around the league. Id be surprised if a single fanbase has a majority of its fans think their head coach is a good game day coach. If that does exist its a unicorn situation.

I think it also points to the gameday influence of the coach (especially if not a play caller) being relatively minor compared to prep work during the week. Would the line change even a half point if a coach got sick Sat night and missed a game?

[makoman]

IMO margins are too thin in the NFL and too many games are close to think an incompetent or even poor in game coach can win at this clip. I wouldnt pick nits if people called him below avg. Id also advise people to watch more games, or at least listen to more fans, from around the league. Id be surprised if a single fanbase has a majority of its fans think their head coach is a good game day coach. If that does exist its a unicorn situation.

Margins are too thin in the playoffs, where Harbs is 12-10, including 9-4 through the SB and 3-6 since. While it's a week to week league, with the rosters he's had he should be above 500, there are a lot of bad teams each year and we've generally had better rosters than average IMO.

 

I don't think he's bad at all overall, I've said before I think he's a borderline HOFer and I pretty much have the same view Mackus put forth. He always has good rosters, credit to Ozzie and EDC, and generally has his guys ready to play so credit that to him, and all that shows up in his good record. But he is probably a negative on Sundays IMO, just because he is terrible at challenges and also it should be his job to take over when things are going south with play calling and too often he simply doesn't (saying stuff like "yeah, I think Gus should have run more than 3 times, we'll have to look at that" against Pit last year isn't good enough, the buck is supposed to stop with him). The rest of it generally makes up for that, so net is good, but I am happy to complain about the bad while acknowledging the good. I think it may be the case too that the HC on Sundays is a little overrated, as long as you have good coordinators calling the plays. A lot of people complain about the analytical stuff but he largely follows the numbers so I don't mind that stuff. 

[Biggsy]

IMO margins are too thin in the NFL and too many games are close to think an incompetent or even poor in game coach can win at this clip. I wouldnt pick nits if people called him below avg. Id also advise people to watch more games, or at least listen to more fans, from around the league. Id be surprised if a single fanbase has a majority of its fans think their head coach is a good game day coach. If that does exist its a unicorn situation.

I'd say right now, Reid and Shanahan may be the only ones in that "unicorn" role. And Reid was run out of Philly, and labeled a choke artist.

I'm neutral on Harbaugh. He's extremely frustrating with challenges. He makes some dumb decisions randomly. And he has 2 or 3 games a year where his teams simply get outcoached. But overall, it's hard to argue with his consistent results, year to year. I think part of that is Ozzie/EDC consistently giving him playoff caliber rosters. But the players seem to respect him, and more often than not are ready to go on game day.

If Biscotti decided to move on, I wouldn't be mad. But Harbaugh has earned the right to continue coaching this team as of now.

[mweb08]

I'd say right now, Reid and Shanahan may be the only ones in that "unicorn" role. And Reid was run out of Philly, and labeled a choke artist.

I think these coaches are considered fantastic play callers, but poor game managers otherwise.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Margins are too thin in the playoffs, where Harbs is 12-10, including 9-4 through the SB and 3-6 since. While it's a week to week league, with the rosters he's had he should be above 500, there are a lot of bad teams each year and we've generally had better rosters than average IMO.

I don't think he's bad at all overall, I've said before I think he's a borderline HOFer and I pretty much have the same view Mackus put forth. He always has good rosters, credit to Ozzie and EDC, and generally has his guys ready to play so credit that to him, and all that shows up in his good record. But he is probably a negative on Sundays IMO, just because he is terrible at challenges and also it should be his job to take over when things are going south with play calling and too often he simply doesn't (saying stuff like "yeah, I think Gus should have run more than 3 times, we'll have to look at that" against Pit last year isn't good enough, the buck is supposed to stop with him). The rest of it generally makes up for that, so net is good, but I am happy to complain about the bad while acknowledging the good. I think it may be the case too that the HC on Sundays is a little overrated, as long as you have good coordinators calling the plays. A lot of people complain about the analytical stuff but he largely follows the numbers so I don't mind that stuff.

Im sure Im not going to enough places or casting a wide enough net. Pedro said talk radio and twitter was littered with fans who were crossing the line on Lamar. I will just say that from my perspective Ive been running into most of the people who essentially only want to point fingers at the coaching staff in that game.

[bmore_ken]

I'm trying hard not to laugh but I just can't I just lost it

[makoman]

Apparently this is not happening now, per Tom Pelissero. All that angst for nothing.