1156 replies to this topic

[jamesdean]

Saw a stat today that blows my mind. Tucker is 0/2 on 50+ yarders this season. Every other kicker in the NFL is 35/35.
That seems insane to me.

There's no doubt kickers are highly skilled today and FG's from 50 yards out is not the low chance risk it used to be. Tucker is one of those kickers who brought long range accuracy to another level. He still has the leg to do it so hopefully, its something he can correct going forward. If not, then the Ravens have to alter their approach in getting closer.

[Mackus]

I think they've already adjusted their approach on needing to get closer.  They are very aggressive on 4th downs from the 30-40 yard line, and have been for a few years even before Tucker started struggling from beyond 50.

[jamesdean]

I think they've already adjusted their approach on needing to get closer.  They are very aggressive on 4th downs from the 30-40 yard line, and have been for a few years even before Tucker started struggling from beyond 50.

Yeah, it's great when it works on 4th down and I'm not sure what the conversion rate is for the Ravens but sometimes, I think Harbaugh gets a little reckless.  A lot of times, I'd rather see the opposition pinned inside their 10-yard line after a punt than starting from their own 40.  That can cost you games.  Of course, Stout's not the best coffin corner kicker around and that's another issue this team has in making those decisions. 

[hallas]

Yeah, it's great when it works on 4th down and I'm not sure what the conversion rate is for the Ravens but sometimes, I think Harbaugh gets a little reckless.  A lot of times, I'd rather see the opposition pinned inside their 10-yard line after a punt than starting from their own 40.  That can cost you games.  Of course, Stout's not the best coffin corner kicker around and that's another issue this team has in making those decisions. 

 

With the kind of running game the Ravens have the opponent shouldn't be starting at the 40 that often, becauase we should be converting a lot of them.  I understand the variance involved if you fail to convert but I understand the logic.  A lot of times the playcalling is really weird in those situations as well.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Ravens 4th overall in DVOA. Obviously, a SSS with 3 weeks of data. 1st in offense, 11th in Defense, 25th in ST.  

 

DVOA isnt perfect but I love what it tries to do. Its fights hard to get through the BS narratives. Fights hard to get through the subjectivity of flags that have so much influence on the game. Just tries to find the best teams with the snaps played on the field. I havent watched too many others play but do I can absolutely believe this has been a top 5 team through 3 weeks despite the end results. 

[Tranquil1]

It is usually assumed that the holder on kicks is doing his job correctly. Our holder changed 2 years ago. I am not about to throw him under the bus but I wonder if there is something subtle about how he catches and places the ball that is different from what Koch did. Looking at Tucker pregame and he kicks off a tee long and accurately. I know that isn't the same as a real kick but it shows that he still can kick the distance fairly easily. Somethings changed and I don't think it's his confidence.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

It is usually assumed that the holder on kicks is doing his job correctly. Our holder changed 2 years ago. I am not about to throw him under the bus but I wonder if there is something subtle about how he catches and places the ball that is different from what Koch did. Looking at Tucker pregame and he kicks off a tee long and accurately. I know that isn't the same as a real kick but it shows that he still can kick the distance fairly easily. Somethings changed and I don't think it's his confidence.

I brought this up in the game thread. IMO its possible. 

[makoman]

This doesn't sound like a holder problem, though it could be, who knows. Stout was also the holder in 2022 when Tucker was 9/14 from 50+.

 

Ryan Mink

John Harbaugh said Justin Tucker has a "technique issue" and knows exactly what it is. Harbs is confident he'll smooth it out.
2:32 PM · Sep 23, 2024

 

ETA: I also think that if Tucker or the coaches didn't like the holding, if they had any inkling this was the issue, Stout would have been replaced a long time ago. They aren't going to throw him under the bus to reporters, but they aren't going to just let Stout ruin the GOAT kicker either.

[Slidemaster]

Ravens 4th overall in DVOA. Obviously, a SSS with 3 weeks of data. 1st in offense, 11th in Defense, 25th in ST.

DVOA isnt perfect but I love what it tries to do. Its fights hard to get through the BS narratives. Fights hard to get through the subjectivity of flags that have so much influence on the game. Just tries to find the best teams with the snaps played on the field. I havent watched too many others play but do I can absolutely believe this has been a top 5 team through 3 weeks despite the end results.

I just don't care about DVOA anymore. It means nothing. No bearing on who wins or when or how. Not predictive in any way of performance. Where did DVOA get the 2019 and 2023 Ravens? Nowhere.

11th in defense? LOL. This is a bottom 10 defense for sure, and probably lower.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I just don't care about DVOA anymore. It means nothing. No bearing on who wins or when or how. Not predictive in any way of performance. Where did DVOA get the 2019 and 2023 Ravens? Nowhere.

11th in defense? LOL. This is a bottom 10 defense for sure, and probably lower.

Would expect no less.

[Ravens2006]

This doesn't sound like a holder problem, though it could be, who knows. Stout was also the holder in 2022 when Tucker was 9/14 from 50+.

Ryan Mink
John Harbaugh said Justin Tucker has a "technique issue" and knows exactly what it is. Harbs is confident he'll smooth it out.
2:32 PM · Sep 23, 2024

ETA: I also think that if Tucker or the coaches didn't like the holding, if they had any inkling this was the issue, Stout would have been replaced a long time ago. They aren't going to throw him under the bus to reporters, but they aren't going to just let Stout ruin the GOAT kicker either.

I feel like all his misses are drifting left. Optimistic side says it sounds like a fixable mechanics or timing thing somewhere in the snap hold kick process.

[NewMarketSean]

I just don't care about DVOA anymore. It means nothing. No bearing on who wins or when or how. Not predictive in any way of performance. Where did DVOA get the 2019 and 2023 Ravens? Nowhere.

11th in defense? LOL. This is a bottom 10 defense for sure, and probably lower.

 

Do you have a cat? Does it crap in your corn flakes each morning? I mean you're brutal. And this is coming from someone who was insufferable about some really bad Orioles teams in the 2000s. Lighten up.

 

Regardless of your DVOA feelings (I've never paid them much attention either) the defense is a work in progress. The late 4Q collapses are certainly troubling and may ultimately lead back to Harbaugh since they've happened under him with different players and coordinators.

 

Harbaugh has been on thin ice with me for a year or so now. But I think he is actually good at making adjustments over the course of a season. I just don't know why it needs to happen every year.

[jamesdean]

I'm wondering when Tucker practices during the week, are the balls snapped and Stout holding for him?  Or is he just kicking off a tee? If he needs to work something out with Stout, then I think it's imperative that they practice together. 

[Slidemaster]

Do you have a cat? Does it crap in your corn flakes each morning? I mean you're brutal. And this is coming from someone who was insufferable about some really bad Orioles teams in the 2000s. Lighten up.

Regardless of your DVOA feelings (I've never paid them much attention either) the defense is a work in progress. The late 4Q collapses are certainly troubling and may ultimately lead back to Harbaugh since they've happened under him with different players and coordinators.

Harbaugh has been on thin ice with me for a year or so now. But I think he is actually good at making adjustments over the course of a season. I just don't know why it needs to happen every year.

The number of 4th quarter collapses are unprecedented. Nobody blows 4th quarter leads as spectacularly or consistently as the Ravens.

I'm not miserable about everything but I have literally no idea how anyone can come out of the Dallas game feeling good. It was shades of the Miami game two years ago when they blew a 21 point lead in like 6 minutes. When they have that in their DNA, they're not serious contenders.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Ban

[Pedro Cerrano]

Lost to KC by an inch and missed FG

Lost to Vegas due to a horrible call and missed FG

Beat Dallas

“Watch the games properly.” -Chris Russo

[Slidemaster]

Lost to KC by an inch and missed FG

Lost to Vegas due to a horrible call and missed FG

Beat Dallas

“Watch the games properly.” -Chris Russo

No, they lost to KC because Xavier Worthy torched them for 2 tds on 3 touches. Since then Worthy has done literally nothing. Even if they had gotten the score at the end, it at best sets them up for overtime.

They lost to LV because their secondary is terrible and they blew a 10 point lead in the 4th. If the refs "cost you the game" it's because you didn't play well enough.

Then they barely hang on to beat Dallas because Dallas's run defense is as bad as the Ravens' pass defense. In the process they allow 19 points in the final 8-ish minutes and nearly cost themselves the game.

How can any of that inspire confidence?

If the Orioles jumped out to an 8-1 lead and then their bullpen allowed 6 runs in the 8th and 9th inning before escaping with the bases loaded on a fly ball two feet in front of the wall, would anyone here be puffing out their chest and thinking all was well?

Not a chance. And now Josh Allen and one of the best teams in the NFL come to town.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Boooo Boooo

[NewMarketSean]

No, they lost to KC because Xavier Worthy torched them for 2 tds on 3 touches. Since then Worthy has done literally nothing. Even if they had gotten the score at the end, it at best sets them up for overtime.

They lost to LV because their secondary is terrible and they blew a 10 point lead in the 4th. If the refs "cost you the game" it's because you didn't play well enough.

Then they barely hang on to beat Dallas because Dallas's run defense is as bad as the Ravens' pass defense. In the process they allow 19 points in the final 8-ish minutes and nearly cost themselves the game.

How can any of that inspire confidence?

If the Orioles jumped out to an 8-1 lead and then their bullpen allowed 6 runs in the 8th and 9th inning before escaping with the bases loaded on a fly ball two feet in front of the wall, would anyone here be puffing out their chest and thinking all was well?

Not a chance. And now Josh Allen and one of the best teams in the NFL come to town.

So what will you be watching on Sunday night? The new Matlock with Kathy Bates?

[Slidemaster]

So what will you be watching on Sunday night? The new Matlock with Kathy Bates?

I might watch the game, or I might not. I'm on record as saying that none of what happens in the regular season (including all the criticism) means anything. When the playoffs start, assuming they make it, they have the chance to do something relevant.

Kathy Bates is fantastic though. That wasn't even on my radar.