37 replies to this topic

[NewMarketSean]

I sat out in the drizzle the entire game and it was one of the most disappointing games I can remember.  Luckily we also were watching the Orioles on my sons phone most of the game, so that saved the day some.

I am not one who fires coaches, GM's players etc. after a bad game though.  Yesterday was one of bad plays, bad reffing and bad coaching decision.  I am moving on, but yesterday stunk.

 

Yesterday was miserable all the way around. A game and experience that made me wonder whether I wanna continue being a PSL owner.

[Nigel Tufnel]

The fair catch on the free kick must have been called on the sideline to avoid a fumble because Flowers could have gained at least 10 yrds and run time off the clock. I saw the flag come out on the obvious face mask penalty then the call was block in the back. Would the same ref have thrown that flag.? Maybe he was so wrapped up in one call he missed the other. It would have been offsetting.

 

Yeah, apparently the clock had initially gone below 2 minutes on the safety play, so they told Flowers to fair catch it.  Then the refs put extra time on the clock, the Ravens sideline didn't notice until the return team was already on the field, and they couldn't get Flowers's attention.  Seems like a time out might have been a good idea there, although it also seems like the refs should be really, really clear any time they reset the clock from after the 2-minute warning to before.

[Biggsy]

Yeah, apparently the clock had initially gone below 2 minutes on the safety play, so they told Flowers to fair catch it. Then the refs put extra time on the clock, the Ravens sideline didn't notice until the return team was already on the field, and they couldn't get Flowers's attention. Seems like a time out might have been a good idea there, although it also seems like the refs should be really, really clear any time they reset the clock from after the 2-minute warning to before.

They reviewed it. Usually after a review, especially one where a change was made, they announce the change, and any changes to the game clock. A lot of fishy things at the end. Not announcing the change to the clock. Missing an obvious face mask. Then missing an obvious PI/defensive hold. Pretty sure when Indy's coach pulled his BS with the kick early on, the refs didn't step in and hold the snap the first time to let the Ravens sub either. Ravens cost themselves by fumbling the game away, and not being able to pick up one first down. But the extra help from the refs certainly doesn't make things any easier.

[CantonJester]

They reviewed it. Usually after a review, especially one where a change was made, they announce the change, and any changes to the game clock. A lot of fishy things at the end. Not announcing the change to the clock. Missing an obvious face mask. Then missing an obvious PI/defensive hold. Pretty sure when Indy's coach pulled his BS with the kick early on, the refs didn't step in and hold the snap the first time to let the Ravens sub either. Ravens cost themselves by fumbling the game away, and not being able to pick up one first down. But the extra help from the refs certainly doesn't make things any easier.

 

The problem with conservative play calling (seriously, I thought Monken was some sort of QB/WR whisperer) is that it turns football fans into conspiracy loons. Cuz at the end of the day, you wouldn’t give a crap about any of this if Baltimore dropped 40 on the Colts. 

[Ravens2006]

Yeah, apparently the clock had initially gone below 2 minutes on the safety play, so they told Flowers to fair catch it.  Then the refs put extra time on the clock, the Ravens sideline didn't notice until the return team was already on the field, and they couldn't get Flowers's attention.  Seems like a time out might have been a good idea there, although it also seems like the refs should be really, really clear any time they reset the clock from after the 2-minute warning to before.

 

This is my main gripe with all things Harbs.  Aside from his past lack of "general guidance" to coordinators based on game situation (score, field position, clock, TOs), which is a problem... there are times when it should be on HIM to step in and say "Stop everything, let's make sure we're all on the right page and we know what to do".  I noticed the game clock, and I'm dumb as a rock sitting in the 500s.

 

He doesn't do it.  He hardly ever does it.  The evidence remains overwhelming for his "supportive spectator" role between kick-off and triple zeroes.  

 

I'd really, really love to know what happened on the Lamar run / Indy penalty around the 3:30-3:20 mark of the 4th where the clock stopped and never restarted until the next snap (on a DEFENSIVE penalty).  Someone explain to me how that isn't wrong?

[Mike in STL]

This is my main gripe with all things Harbs.  Aside from his past lack of "general guidance" to coordinators based on game situation (score, field position, clock, TOs), which is a problem... there are times when it should be on HIM to step in and say "Stop everything, let's make sure we're all on the right page and we know what to do".  I noticed the game clock, and I'm dumb as a rock sitting in the 500s.

 

He doesn't do it.  He hardly ever does it.  The evidence remains overwhelming for his "supportive spectator" role between kick-off and triple zeroes.  

 

I'd really, really love to know what happened on the Lamar run / Indy penalty around the 3:30-3:20 mark of the 4th where the clock stopped and never restarted until the next snap (on a DEFENSIVE penalty).  Someone explain to me how that isn't wrong?

He is just never prepared. He's always asking guys, "what do you want to do?" "Want to go for this?". It should be talked about during the week, where on the field and what distance they will attempt a 4th down. It should be talked about during the week, how much time and what score differential means they will go for two. This way when the offense is staring at a 3rd and 2 from the 45-yard line, Monken can give the play in LJs ear followed by "if you don't get the first down, stay out there." This way at the start of a drive you can tell your guys, "If we score here, we're going for two." 

[Biggsy]

The problem with conservative play calling (seriously, I thought Monken was some sort of QB/WR whisperer) is that it turns football fans into conspiracy loons. Cuz at the end of the day, you wouldn’t give a crap about any of this if Baltimore dropped 40 on the Colts.

Hard to follow what you're trying to say. I mean, I guess I agree. But obviously a terrible job by the refs in a blowout has less consequences than they do in a close game. I don't know how you watch the Flowers play in OT and think that play was even close to clean. LBer grabbed Flowers and turned him before the ball was within 5 yards of him. When you see such an obvious foul, in literally the most crucial moment of the game, what are fans supposed to think? I mean, logic tells me that there is no way a group of 8+ officials are all that bad at their job. So why wouldn't one of them throw a flag?

[CantonJester]

Hard to follow what you're trying to say. I mean, I guess I agree. But obviously a terrible job by the refs in a blowout has less consequences than they do in a close game. I don't know how you watch the Flowers play in OT and think that play was even close to clean. LBer grabbed Flowers and turned him before the ball was within 5 yards of him. When you see such an obvious foul, in literally the most crucial moment of the game, what are fans supposed to think? I mean, logic tells me that there is no way a group of 8+ officials are all that bad at their job. So why wouldn't one of them throw a flag?

 

I guess he was past five yards rule of contact? I dunno. I'm saying it's a big deal when the Ravens squandered 57 minutes of football against an inferior team that they put themselves into a position to rely on a good whistle to save them from themselves. 

[Biggsy]

I guess he was past five yards rule of contact? I dunno. I'm saying it's a big deal when the Ravens squandered 57 minutes of football against an inferior team that they put themselves into a position to rely on a good whistle to save them from themselves.

My original post stated that they fumbled the game away, and couldn't pick up on first down when it mattered. At the end of the day, officiating is part of the game. I hate when people try and act like bad officiating can't impact the final result. It absolutely can. A bad call or non-call can have as much, if not more impact as any other play in the game. The only difference is you can control a bad play. The only difference between Likely dropping a game clinching pass for a first down, and a group of officials swallowing their whistles on an obvious penalty, is the players can control dropping a pass. That doesn't change the fact that a missed call can't completely change a games outcome as much as a fumble or an INT could.

[russsnyder]

My original post stated that they fumbled the game away, and couldn't pick up on first down when it mattered. At the end of the day, officiating is part of the game. I hate when people try and act like bad officiating can't impact the final result. It absolutely can. A bad call or non-call can have as much, if not more impact as any other play in the game. The only difference is you can control a bad play. The only difference between Likely dropping a game clinching pass for a first down, and a group of officials swallowing their whistles on an obvious penalty, is the players can control dropping a pass. That doesn't change the fact that a missed call can't completely change a games outcome as much as a fumble or an INT could.

Yeah, as sloppy as the Ravens played, that non call was obviously a back breaker. That call obviously turned the ball over to the Colts and gave them excellent field position. It doesn't get much more game changing than that.

[Steve55]

Yeah, apparently the clock had initially gone below 2 minutes on the safety play, so they told Flowers to fair catch it.  Then the refs put extra time on the clock, the Ravens sideline didn't notice until the return team was already on the field, and they couldn't get Flowers's attention.  Seems like a time out might have been a good idea there, although it also seems like the refs should be really, really clear any time they reset the clock from after the 2-minute warning to before.

 

 

They did announce the change right before the free kick. Guess they didn't want to use a time out.

[Steve55]

Yes!!! I was at the stadium and couldn't grasp why the game clock didn't restart after they announced the defensive penalty. A quick glance of the interwebs say it should start again on the ref's ready signal, unless the offense chooses to have it start on the snap.

If all that is true and I'm grasping the rules correctly... either the refs screwed up and the Ravens coaching staff didn't question it at all... or the Ravens CHOSE to have it start on the snap. Despite having the ball, and the lead, late in the game...

If someone has a better explanation, feel free to set me straight.

 

 

The clock does stop on a defensive penalty. The penalty was declined. Not sure what happens when they start the clock.

[Steve55]

Hard to follow what you're trying to say. I mean, I guess I agree. But obviously a terrible job by the refs in a blowout has less consequences than they do in a close game. I don't know how you watch the Flowers play in OT and think that play was even close to clean. LBer grabbed Flowers and turned him before the ball was within 5 yards of him. When you see such an obvious foul, in literally the most crucial moment of the game, what are fans supposed to think? I mean, logic tells me that there is no way a group of 8+ officials are all that bad at their job. So why wouldn't one of them throw a flag?

 

They missed the facemask play. Although the ref who threw the flag for block in the back should have also seen that. He had the angle.

He could have thrown his hat since he used his flag.

[Nigel Tufnel]

They did announce the change right before the free kick. Guess they didn't want to use a time out.

 

Possibly a case where the special teams coach told him to fair catch it, but then doesn't have the authority to call a time out.

[Steve55]

Possibly a case where the special teams coach told him to fair catch it, but then doesn't have the authority to call a time out.

 

It was likely when they believed it was the 2 min warning they told him to fair catch it. Then after the TV timeout it was anounced to put more time on the clock. Then the Colts lined up to kick. We had 2 TO's left. I guess Harbaugh didn't want to use one believing they could get a 1st down.

[Ravens2006]

All of the clock management and sideline guidance was atrocious the last two minutes of regulation.

They had 3 running clock downs on offense starting at around the 4:50 left mark in the 4th where they snapped the ball with 8, 5, and 8 seconds left on the play clock. You have the lead, you have the ball, and you're down to around 4 minutes left in the game. Burn more clock. When you are ahead late, burning clock is a great ally. Why is it not obvious to Harbs that a directive needs to be sent in... Run this clock down to 2 or 3 seconds at most every snap. You're either going to 1) burn more clock, or 2) force the opponent to burn their own TOs. Or both. It's not rocket science, just common sense. If they snap at 2 or 3, that's an extra 12-14 seconds taken off the game clock. Oh look, then Minshew is stepping out of the end zone at 1:50 instead of 2:03. The two minute warning timeout is off the table. Indy burns their final timeout sooner and at worst the Ravens run an extra 80 seconds off the clock, before giving the ball back to Indy with ZERO timeouts and maybe 15 seconds left.

And calling the TO with 6 seconds left in regulation instead of letting the clock get to 3 or 4... You just gave Indy the chance to get the ball back one more time. And they had a midfield snap with 1 second left. Needless if the Ravens staff manages the clock better.

THAT is where some simple, big picture, game management from your head coach can help you win a game. Harbs doesn't do it. He never contributes in that category. We keep seeing games given away year after year in the same fashion, and it's the difference between home and away in playoffs, or sometimes worse.

And why would Flowers be the deep man to begin with on that free kick??? Duvernay handles the returns, then in a moment of clock confusion and hesitation from the dude in the polo shirt... a rookie is back taking his first return in a pivotal late and close scenario.

It doesn't make sense. And he's never ever held accountable...

[BaltBird 24]

Great Monday through Saturday (unless we play Monday or Thursday). Terrible on Sunday.

[ivanbalt]

All of the clock management and sideline guidance was atrocious the last two minutes of regulation.

They had 3 running clock downs on offense starting at around the 4:50 left mark in the 4th where they snapped the ball with 8, 5, and 8 seconds left on the play clock. You have the lead, you have the ball, and you're down to around 4 minutes left in the game. Burn more clock. When you are ahead late, burning clock is a great ally. Why is it not obvious to Harbs that a directive needs to be sent in... Run this clock down to 2 or 3 seconds at most every snap. You're either going to 1) burn more clock, or 2) force the opponent to burn their own TOs. Or both. It's not rocket science, just common sense. If they snap at 2 or 3, that's an extra 12-14 seconds taken off the game clock. Oh look, then Minshew is stepping out of the end zone at 1:50 instead of 2:03. The two minute warning timeout is off the table. Indy burns their final timeout sooner and at worst the Ravens run an extra 80 seconds off the clock, before giving the ball back to Indy with ZERO timeouts and maybe 15 seconds left.

And calling the TO with 6 seconds left in regulation instead of letting the clock get to 3 or 4... You just gave Indy the chance to get the ball back one more time. And they had a midfield snap with 1 second left. Needless if the Ravens staff manages the clock better.

THAT is where some simple, big picture, game management from your head coach can help you win a game. Harbs doesn't do it. He never contributes in that category. We keep seeing games given away year after year in the same fashion, and it's the difference between home and away in playoffs, or sometimes worse.

And why would Flowers be the deep man to begin with on that free kick??? Duvernay handles the returns, then in a moment of clock confusion and hesitation from the dude in the polo shirt... a rookie is back taking his first return in a pivotal late and close scenario.

It doesn't make sense. And he's never ever held accountable...

For me it's still much simpler.  Need one first down to win.  The Ravens are paying their QB an average of $52 million a year.  Do they have him throw or a designed run (which worked well throughout the game) during those 3 downs?  No, they instead have a backup running back carry twice and then give a carry to a rookie wide receiver.  Punt.

 

Why are they paying a QB top dollar to go conservative with the game on the line?  Safe to say teams like the Chiefs or Bengals are putting the ball in the hands of their high priced QBs.