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Baltimore Sun: Orioles’ 2023 attendance up 24% compared with last year at same point; MLB attendance up 6%


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#1 BSLRoseKatz

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Posted 02 June 2023 - 03:23 PM

https://www.baltimor...5q4a-story.html


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#2 bmore_ken

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Posted 02 June 2023 - 03:55 PM

Winning can certainly have that effect.



#3 NewMarketSean

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Posted 02 June 2023 - 04:07 PM

That’s good news. Hopefully it continues to climb. There is definitely excitement out there for this team.
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#4 jamesdean

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Posted 02 June 2023 - 04:53 PM

I was just thinking the other day how fan attendance for baseball has grown so much over the years.  Minus the Florida teams and Oakland of course.  Granted, there's a lot more people in the Country now than 50 years ago but its amazing how those great Oriole teams of the late 60's through the 70's were lucky to draw a million fans for a whole season.  That was like the benchmark for a successful attendance, especially in Baltimore.  They always said baseball was America's sport but football has been king for a long time going back to the Colts heydays of the late 50's.  So, they can say what they want about baseball and it's popularity but it looks pretty healthy to me. 



#5 Mike in STL

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Posted 02 June 2023 - 04:56 PM

So the fans are doing their part. That was a primary reason according to Angelos for not spending. Let’s see if that changes.
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#6 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 02 June 2023 - 04:59 PM

Os fans have embraced the rebuild. Someone let dude know
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#7 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 02 June 2023 - 05:31 PM

Os fans have embraced the rebuild. Someone let dude know


Eh. They’re coming because the team is good. The majority of them couldn’t care less how we got here.
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#8 BSLRoseKatz

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Posted 02 June 2023 - 06:05 PM

Eh. They’re coming because the team is good. The majority of them couldn’t care less how we got here.

 

Yeah if they embraced the rebuild they would've been showing up in 2021 cheering for losses lol


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#9 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 02 June 2023 - 06:07 PM

You win, and attendance improves.
Does this stop the worry that fans won't comeback?

#10 dude

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Posted 02 June 2023 - 06:51 PM

The answer is good, but there's some math challenges here.

 

You win, and attendance improves.
Does this stop the worry that fans won't comeback?

 

Coming back 24% from a gutted attendance isn't that great.  It's better than flat or more decreases, but Compare it to where we should from a competent, quality, professional approach (marketing, plan, etc) over the years.

 

You gave away fans over the years because they chose to invest their time/money in other things.  You didn't care about the product on the field and people that desperately wanted to be excited about the product left or died disappointed.  We'll see if things are genuinely sustainably better.  The challenges other teams that viewed themselves as competitive can still happen to this (or any) team.  Winning is something you need to earn.

 

The better question is how far away are we from 2.75M fans?  That's actually what you've given up.

 

Also, we'll see if that % increase holds from this point on.  Last year, to this point, the Oiroles were a team that did nothing in the offseason and were losing their ass off.  They started playing better mid-May (plus Adley bump) so I'm guessing the attendance rate last year was better the last 4 months (as they became more competitive) than the first 2 months....so this could largely be the fans that were just turning out at the end of the year that were giving you some of the competitive bump.  "To this point" just means you get to compare to a poor number last year. 

 

We'll see if they can sustain fan growth for the remainder of the season....but they've given away a lot and won't be anywhere close to where they could/should be without intentionally driving fans away for years and years (going back to 2008-2011)



#11 dude

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Posted 02 June 2023 - 06:55 PM

Os fans have embraced the rebuild. Someone let dude know

 

This is largely the team Mike Elias said didn't have the Talent to compete (well, plus players that couldn't make other 40-man rosters).

 

#MythofRebuilding


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#12 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 03 June 2023 - 02:27 PM

Are hashtags still a thing. 

 

You win, and attendance improves.
Does this stop the worry that fans won't comeback?

I genuinely feel like a  lot fans have embraced the young home grown talent and how things were built. Or rebuilt if you were. They believe this is pretty sustainable if ownership allows that to happen. Sure, fans come out when a team is winning. Fans also know when it isn't real or its luck. 

 

 

 

Another thing I had never realized before was how much the Nats took a chunk out of the Os and how instant it was. As far as attendance. Like we all knew Washington getting a team would make an impact on the Os but I was looking through attendance figures today. Os were consistently top 5 in the AL from '89 through '05. From '92 through '2000 they were 1st or 2nd in the AL every year.  From 2006 on the highest they have ranked in the AL was 6th. That was 2014.



#13 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 03 June 2023 - 02:29 PM

Are hashtags still a thing. 

 

I genuinely feel like a  lot fans have embraced the young home grown talent and how things were built. Or rebuilt if you were. They believe this is pretty sustainable if ownership allows that to happen. Sure, fans come out when a team is winning. Fans also know when it isn't real or its luck. 

 

 

 

Another thing I had never realized before was how much the Nats took a chunk out of the Os and how instant it was. As far as attendance. Like we all knew Washington getting a team would make an impact on the Os but I was looking through attendance figures today. Os were consistently top 5 in the AL from '89 through '05. From '92 through '2000 they were 1st or 2nd in the AL every year.  From 2006 on the highest they have ranked in the AL was 6th. That was 2014.


Montgomery, PG, DC, and NOVA represented 1/3 of the O's season tickets, suites, and game day (day of) tickets. 



#14 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 03 June 2023 - 02:37 PM


Montgomery, PG, DC, and NOVA represented 1/3 of the O's season tickets, suites, and game day (day of) tickets. 

Yeah Im sure you knew the impact working in sales for the Os. I had just never looked at the actual attendance figures. I think part of it was I didnt realize they were 1st or 2nd every year from '92 through 2000. Like I knew they were up there, but not consistently 1 or 2. 



#15 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 03 June 2023 - 03:13 PM

Yeah Im sure you knew the impact working in sales for the Os. I had just never looked at the actual attendance figures. I think part of it was I didnt realize they were 1st or 2nd every year from '92 through 2000. Like I knew they were up there, but not consistently 1 or 2. 


A lot / most of that of course being the opening of OPACY which was a National story.  It created huge demand... the '92-'95 teams were competitive (and you had the '93 All-Star game, and 2131) and then you had back-to-back ALCS teams in '96 and '97.  It was the thing to do. 

Once it's not the thing to do, it's a long way back. 

And of course you had '98-'11 run of teams finishing under .500 each year, + the Nats...   hard to get past that combination. 

The '12-'16 run was a sustained block of time.  The '14 team did just about 2.5M.  Seems like a reasonable number to currently shoot for as early as next year.



#16 dude

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Posted 03 June 2023 - 05:52 PM

Are hashtags still a thing. 

 

#notsure

 

Another thing I had never realized before was how much the Nats took a chunk out of the Os and how instant it was. As far as attendance. 

 

Then you simply do not understand the facts.  We've done this many times.  



#17 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 03 June 2023 - 06:32 PM

I dont read the majority of shit you post. Its a super skim at best. And thats not just me. Its everyone

#18 CantonJester

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Posted 03 June 2023 - 06:41 PM

I dont read the majority of shit you post. Its a super skim at best. And thats not just me. Its everyone

 

You just engaged like four logical fallacies here. Slow your roll. 


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#19 dude

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Posted 03 June 2023 - 08:50 PM

I dont read the majority of shit you post. Its a super skim at best. And thats not just me. Its everyone

 

You don't need to read my posts to understand attendance and timelines.

 

Orioles maxed drew 3.5M with the advent of OPaCY and had a peak after competitive seasons in1997 at 3.7M

After the 1997 season (actually during which started everything) the Angelos family moved to exert more direct control over how all aspects were run.

 

From 1997 (3.7M) to 2003 the Orioles mismanaged their way down to 2.45M in attendance.  That loss of 1.25M fans has absolutely zero to do with the Nationals who don't show up until 2005. If you don't know or understand that, I'm not sure how to help you.  Your statements are uninformed and completely wrong.

 

They get a bump in 2004 and 2005 when Miggy fell into their laps, but can't sustain any quality of the club.

 

After the 2007 season (really during, when McFail was hired) the Orioles announced they were rebuilding (deferred accountability for winning) and drove attendance down to 1.7M.  Nothing to do with the Nationals.  

 

In 2012 expectations were low but the Orioles surprised (then record for X-inning and 1-run games) and won 93 and made the Playoffs.

 

The Orioles would win more games in the AL from 2012 to 2016 but they struggled to really sell the competitive results.  They would max attendance in 2014 at 2.46M which is basically the exact same number they drove it down to in 2003.  In fact, one of those years they were sending AJ and Manny nad one of the other stars basically to the media to lament the lank of fans showing up (we talked about it here) despite  the competitive play.

 

That's the problem and we'll see if they experience a new (lower) ceiling as a function of driving away fans from 2019-2022.  Every time you go through 4 or 5 years or more, you risk losing any energy for your sustained fanbase.  It's supply demand.  They've gutted demand 3 times over extended years since 1997.  Now you don't have to commit to buying tickets so if something else comes up or the weather is looks bad or whatever, it's too easy to find something to compete for your time and resources.

 

The incompetence in every aspect of the Organization that has caused this problem for decades has ZERO to do with the Nationals.

 

In fact, the Nationals have been the best thing to happen to the Orioles under the lopsided structure of the MASN agreement, because without MASN and the regional interest for the Nationals when the Orioles continued to fail, it would have gutted their resources even deeper.  It's created a revenue floor they don't have to earn and we've seen them in the last couple years even try to gut that further.

 

John Angelos likes to puff his chest out on "economic impact" but they have so grossly underperformed in that respect it's comical.  



#20 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 03 June 2023 - 08:52 PM

Tldr




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