113 replies to this topic

[Mike B]

Last night's moves were a direct result of what Hyder did on Tuesday night.

 

Givens had an easy, 9 pitch 6th inning. He easily could've gone out to at least start the 7th. Instead, Cano was brought it for 2 innings, thus making him unavailable last night. 

 

Fortunately, it worked out but the overmanaging/micromanaging style with regards to the pitching staff is going to burn out this bullpen. 

I disagree.  I think using Cano in a 1 run game for 2 innings was 100% the right move.  I believe that you never lose a very winnable game at the cost of being ready for the next game.  The next game could be a blow out where there is not a need for one of your best guys.  Win the game in front of you.

I think the BP may get burned out, but it will because the rotation does not give length.

[Mike B]

Last night's moves were a direct result of what Hyder did on Tuesday night.

 

Givens had an easy, 9 pitch 6th inning. He easily could've gone out to at least start the 7th. Instead, Cano was brought it for 2 innings, thus making him unavailable last night. 

 

Fortunately, it worked out but the overmanaging/micromanaging style with regards to the pitching staff is going to burn out this bullpen. 

A few other points.  JMO, but had Hyde stuck with Givens on Tuesday night and it had gone bad, people here would have been complaining that Givens should have only been used for 1 inning.

2.  The move worked.  Cano held the Yankees in place.  Judge got Felix, but having them cover the last 3 was the best chance to win.

3.  The Orioles did the same last night with Coulombe and Felix. and it also worked.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Coount me out on criticizing the bullpen usage on Tuesday. It was a 1-run lead in the 7th. Going to Cano & Bautista to try and finish the game is perfectly fine. It's exactly what I feel like Hyde didn't typically do late last season when the games really mattered. Good decision on Monday, bad result due to a meatball splitter.

Yesterdays game should tell you why throwing Givens against the top of the order in a 1 run game wasnt gonna be a great idea. At least yesterday it was 3 runs and the bottom of the order when he entered.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Btw Bautista has regained fastball control. Hes around the zone. Glad to see its up to 99 and 100+. Still doesnt have that dirty split though. Trying to keep them off balance more with the slider now. Didnt look at the gamelog butmIm not sure he threw more than 1 or 2 splits last night. I remember one off memory. I domt remember a 2nd. I know he threw at least two sliders. Mostly all gas though.

[PrimeTime]

Coount me out on criticizing the bullpen usage on Tuesday.  It was a 1-run lead in the 7th.  Going to Cano & Bautista to try and finish the game is perfectly fine.  It's exactly what I feel like Hyde didn't typically do late last season when the games really mattered.  Good decision on Monday, bad result due to a meatball splitter.

 

I didn't criticize the move but instead was highlighting it as an example of a decision made one night can impact the next night.

 

But I will say this, at some point, the quick hook with starters, combined with making bullpens moves like it's game 7 of the world series every night is going to come back to bite us. Or, maybe the roster is good enough that we continue to overcome it.

[Mike B]

I didn't criticize the move but instead was highlighting it as an example of a decision made one night can impact the next night.

 

But I will say this, at some point, the quick hook with starters, combined with making bullpens moves like it's game 7 of the world series every night is going to come back to bite us. Or, maybe the roster is good enough that we continue to overcome it.

I really do not see a choice.  I also think it is an organization philosophy to limit the number of times they let Bradish, Wells, Kramer and GRod go through the lineup.  Couple that with the amount of pitches it takes the starters to get through 5 or 6 the BP is going to get worked.

 

I have said this before, I do not think Hyde is a great manager but I do think he is a good one and the guys fight for him.  

[PrimeTime]

Having starters that can't go deep when you need them to will burn it out also.

 

You have to allow them to go deeper sometimes. Hyde has a clear philosophy with when to pull starters. He decides that inning X will be the starter's last one. Then, as soon as a runner reaches base, he pulls said starter. Regardless of whether it's a blooper or a seeing eye grounder, he pulls the starter. 

 

This happened twice last week vs LAA and as a result, the bullpen was gassed and cost us game 4 of that series. In game 2, Kremer settled down after a 30-31 pitch first inning and was cruising. with 2 outs in the 6th, an easy ground ball that should've been fielded easily for the 3rd out got through because Gunnar cut in front Mateo, which allowed it to sneak through. At 95 pitches, Kremer was still very much in control and should've been given the opportunity to finish the inning. Instead, Baker is brought in....the guy who sucks with inherited runners, allowed 2 singles and a run before getting out of it. From there, it was Perez and Cano.

 

The next night, Bradish was rolling along with a 3-1 lead in the 7th. After allowing a bloop single that deflected off Frazier's glove, Hyde pulled Bradish at 94 pitches. He should've absolutely been given the opportunity to finish the inning. Instead, we went Coulombe, Cano and Bautista. 

 

Those 2 decisions resulted in Cano not being available for Thursday's and stretched the bullpen in general, which was unable to hold the late lead and resulted in a tough loss.

 

Now, you could certainly make the case that, stuff happens and relievers are going to give up runs sometimes and blow late lead sometimes. That's absolutely possible. With that said, I have a hard time accepting that in this instance because the bullpen could've been saved a bit by extending a little bit of trust to your starting pitchers and allowing the the chance to finish an inning later in the game. Particularly when (a) the starter is in control and (b) the batter that reached base did so in a fluky manner. There's playing by the numbers or "by the book", then there's watching the game that's happening in front of you and acting accordingly.

[PrimeTime]

I really do not see a choice.  I also think it is an organization philosophy to limit the number of times they let Bradish, Wells, Kramer and GRod go through the lineup.  Couple that with the amount of pitches it takes the starters to get through 5 or 6 the BP is going to get worked.

 

I have said this before, I do not think Hyde is a great manager but I do think he is a good one and the guys fight for him.  

 

I absolutely believe Hyde's personality compliments this team well and I believe his popular in the clubhouse. I also believe he very much is a "paint by numbers" type of manager and that he's fortunate to have a very talented roster that can cover up for his strategic shortcomings.

 

Not just pitching maneuvers but little things with the lineup. On Tuesday night, when facing Cole, you need every advantage. James McCann is 3 for 5 with a HR lifetime vs Cole. Why would he not be in the lineup? Granted, we scored 4 runs off of Cole but what if McCann could've gotten one big hit that drove in another run or 2, then Bautista isn't in a 1 run game and maybe we win. That to me was a no brainer kind of thing and it's not like McCann only plays sparingly. Why would you not exploit a clear advantage like that?

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Youre not gonna get an argumemt from me that Hyde in general mismanages the pitching staff. He does. He absolutely does. Givens for a 3rd time in 4 games coming off IL yesterday wasnt the best if Im gonna get picky. Coulombe was always gonna pitch most likely. Baker was available too. Coulda used both or just 1 of them. At least he brought Coulombe back out for the 8th and let him get 5 outs.

[PrimeTime]

A few other points.  JMO, but had Hyde stuck with Givens on Tuesday night and it had gone bad, people here would have been complaining that Givens should have only been used for 1 inning.

2.  The move worked.  Cano held the Yankees in place.  Judge got Felix, but having them cover the last 3 was the best chance to win.

3.  The Orioles did the same last night with Coulombe and Felix. and it also worked.

 

Sure people would've griped in the hypothetical of Givens staying in and failing but results shouldn't dictate the validity of a decision. In the same manner that, if a decision has a good result, it doesn't mean it was the correct decision. 

 

It's akin to criticizing play calls in football. Simply because a play doesn't achieve the desired result, it doesn't mean it was a bad call. And on the flipside, if a play works, it doesn't mean it was based on sound logic.

 

Bear in mind, it's fun to break all of this down because we're winning ballgames and it's fun to live and die, proverbially, with every game again.

[PrimeTime]

Youre not gonna get an argumemt from me that Hyde in general mismanages the pitching staff. He does. He absolutely does. Givens for a 3rd time in 4 games coming off IL yesterday wasnt the best if Im gonna get picky. Coulombe was always gonna pitch most likely. Baker was available too. Coulda used both or just 1 of them. At least he brought Coulombe back out for the 8th and let him get 5 outs.

 

Coulombe for the 8th was absolutely the correct call and I was stunned that it happened. LOL

[Mike B]

JMO, but I think they are trying to stay off of Baker for a few days.  His velocity was noticeably down against the Blue Jays.   Baker may have to be one of the leverage guy tonight.

I also would like to see them try to alternate Felix and Cano as much as possible.  It will be better in the long run.

 

Cano was not available last night but if they have a lead going into the 8th, he will get the call tonight.  

[BSLSteveBirrer]

The results oriented decision makers on here would make terrible poker players.....lol

[dude]

I also believe he very much is a "paint by numbers" type of manager and that he's fortunate to have a very talented roster that can cover up for his strategic shortcomings.

 

I'd suggest you are looking in the wrong direction.