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2023 Game 48: 5/23 @ New York Yankees 7:05PM


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#141 NewMarketSean

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Posted 24 May 2023 - 08:55 AM

Well at least Givens will be available tonight LOL


I never had friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?

#142 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 24 May 2023 - 08:58 AM

Use your best bullets in the highest lev spots. That was the top of the order in the 7th in a 1 run game. My god do you people only use hindsight. No thats an easy spot to give to Cano. Wanting to use Givens in his 2nd game back against the top of that order. Come on.

#143 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 24 May 2023 - 09:01 AM

Cano is getting barreled up more though. Hes very good but like 2.50 ERA good. Too many balls put in play to be dominant. Some balls are gonna find grass and lead to runs

#144 DuffMan

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Posted 24 May 2023 - 09:41 AM

It turned out fine but I still question Hyde turning to Cano in the 7th when Givens threw 9 pitches in the 6th. Cano is likely out tonight. Givens could have started the 7th with Cano available if needed. I hate burning up another arm when the previous pitcher sails through an inning.

Here's something else Hyde does that drives me crazy.  Gets guys up in the pen and then doesn't use them.  Over the weekend the broadcast crew mentioned they weren't sure of someone was available that day in the pen (Perez maybe).  The reason being despite not pitching the night before, Hyde him warm up 3 different times!   


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#145 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 24 May 2023 - 10:55 AM

Here's something else Hyde does that drives me crazy. Gets guys up in the pen and then doesn't use them. Over the weekend the broadcast crew mentioned they weren't sure of someone was available that day in the pen (Perez maybe). The reason being despite not pitching the night before, Hyde him warm up 3 different times!

That really is brutal but its because he pushes guys with plans to remove at any sight of trouble. Buck always had a plan. He always thought ahead. Good BP managers do. Hyde flies by the seat of his pants.


If the pen flames out this year people will want to put it on the starters but 15-18 outs from a SP is common everywhere now. Id bet the Os arent particularly low in the IP by their starters department. It will be much more on Hyde. Starters getting less outs per game obviously means the pen is getting more outs per game. You better find a manager who knows how to manage a pen.

#146 Mike in STL

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Posted 24 May 2023 - 11:34 AM

That really is brutal but its because he pushes guys with plans to remove at any sight of trouble. Buck always had a plan. He always thought ahead. Good BP managers do. Hyde flies by the seat of his pants.


If the pen flames out this year people will want to put it on the starters but 15-18 outs from a SP is common everywhere now. Id bet the Os arent particularly low in the IP by their starters department. It will be much more on Hyde. Starters getting less outs per game obviously means the pen is getting more outs per game. You better find a manager who knows how to manage a pen.

Buck is the worst bullpen manager in the history of baseball. I think this past weekend I caught a glimpse of Britton still sitting in the pen in Toronto.


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#147 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 24 May 2023 - 12:09 PM

Buck is the worst bullpen manager in the history of baseball. I think this past weekend I caught a glimpse of Britton still sitting in the pen in Toronto.


I get holding that decision against him, and maybe that outweighs anything else....   but Buck was masterful with the pen imo. 


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#148 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 24 May 2023 - 12:19 PM


I get holding that decision against him, and maybe that outweighs anything else....   but Buck was masterful with the pen imo. 

In the long game, absolutely. But he had no clue when to focus on the now only and forget about tomorrow.



#149 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 24 May 2023 - 12:23 PM

That really is brutal but its because he pushes guys with plans to remove at any sight of trouble. Buck always had a plan. He always thought ahead. Good BP managers do. Hyde flies by the seat of his pants.


If the pen flames out this year people will want to put it on the starters but 15-18 outs from a SP is common everywhere now. Id bet the Os arent particularly low in the IP by their starters department. It will be much more on Hyde. Starters getting less outs per game obviously means the pen is getting more outs per game. You better find a manager who knows how to manage a pen.

The O's are 16th in baseball in IP by starters. So bottom half. You can decide if that's "particularly low" for yourself.

 

https://www.mlb.com/...itched?split=sp



#150 makoman

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Posted 24 May 2023 - 12:39 PM

The O's are 16th in baseball in IP by starters. So bottom half. You can decide if that's "particularly low" for yourself.

 

https://www.mlb.com/...itched?split=sp

5.2 innings per start is among 6 teams tied for 12th and is MLB average. I don't think that's particularly low.

 

https://www.baseball...-pitching.shtml



#151 jamesdean

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Posted 24 May 2023 - 01:20 PM

5.2 innings per start is among 6 teams tied for 12th and is MLB average. I don't think that's particularly low.

 

https://www.baseball...-pitching.shtml

Yeah, I'm not sure what people are expecting from Hyde, considering that no team in baseball is consistently sending any starter out there for 7 innings.  Just isn't going to happen in today's game.  I would think most managers are fully prepared to trot out a minimum of 3-4 pitchers a night, if not more depending on what's happening in the late stages of the game.  



#152 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 24 May 2023 - 01:26 PM

5.2 innings per start is among 6 teams tied for 12th and is MLB average. I don't think that's particularly low.

https://www.baseball...-pitching.shtml

I wouldve guessed middle of the pack but you see the top team is 5.8. Every team is covering, on avg, over 3 innings a game with their pen. Thats baseball now. I think BP management is one of the bigger jobs a manager has in the game

#153 makoman

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Posted 24 May 2023 - 02:16 PM

I wouldve guessed middle of the pack but you see the top team is 5.8. Every team is covering, on avg, over 3 innings a game with their pen. Thats baseball now. I think BP management is one of the bigger jobs a manager has in the game

Yeah, BP (and its management) is very important these days. Just 10 years ago today's average of 5.2 would have been last (5.4 was last) and today's best 5.8 would have been below average (5.9 was average). So teams are basically getting two more outs per game with the BP. Having a great one like last year is a big weapon. Hopefully they can keep that a strength.

 

I imagine openers skew the stats some but have no clue how to account for that. I don't think they're being used quite as much as a few years ago but no idea about the actual data.



#154 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 24 May 2023 - 02:16 PM

Yes but the followon question is how many pitchers are teams using to cover those last 3 innings?

 

PS - The stat I posted was total IP by starters and the Os ARE 16th in the league. Perfect example of how you can use stats to tell the story you want. Average those out over 50 games and its a different metric.



#155 makoman

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Posted 24 May 2023 - 02:25 PM

Yes but the followon question is how many pitchers are teams using to cover those last 3 innings?

League average is 157 relief games in 49 team games or 3.2 relievers per game, with each reliever getting 3.4 outs. The O's have used the most, 3.625 relievers per game, each getting 3.2 outs on average.

 

10 years ago the average was 2.95 relievers per game, each getting 3.1 outs. So today there are more relievers and they are also each getting more outs. But the 3 batter rule and LOOGYs mostly going away changed things.



#156 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 24 May 2023 - 04:06 PM

League average is 157 relief games in 49 team games or 3.2 relievers per game, with each reliever getting 3.4 outs. The O's have used the most, 3.625 relievers per game, each getting 3.2 outs on average.

 

10 years ago the average was 2.95 relievers per game, each getting 3.1 outs. So today there are more relievers and they are also each getting more outs. But the 3 batter rule and LOOGYs mostly going away changed things.

So the O's are using an average of almost 1/2 an extra reliever each game. Which doubles my point. Our starters are not getting enough outs and we are also using too many relievers.

 

But its working so far.






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