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Too early to talk trade?


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#201 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 08:57 AM

Significance is relative. Ill have to deal with some goofs saying someone the equivilant of Giolito wouldnt be a significant addition. Thats jist an example

#202 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 09:03 AM

Would you agree that "real acquisitions to improve the team" and "significance" would be players well above replacement level or MLB average?



#203 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 09:18 AM


Would you agree that "real acquisitions to improve the team" and "significance" would be players well above replacement level or MLB average?

For this season. For their career. Would Verlander in '18 have been a significant addition for Hou considering he was having a poor season at that point and had been exposed to waivers and went unclaimed. Therefore able to be traded in August.

#204 Mackus

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 09:28 AM

Stealing from dude because I thought it was an interesting point.

 

Trea Turner has the lowest OPS of the Phillies regulars.

Abreu hit his first HR with the Astros yesterday.  He's OPSing what McCann is.

Correa has an OPS under .700.

Rodon hasn't thrown a pitch for the Yankees.

What if we had actually signed someone, I feel like you guys would need a hug or a drink or be handcuffed to the furniture so you didn't jump or something.

 

 

I'd still happily take all these guys for the contracts they signed.  Abreu would be the only one I'd be concerned about over the "prime" part of a contract.  But the underlying point that free agents don't guarantee you performance is true, there is still significant uncertainty.  Just less than with prospects or less proven younger players.  I'd bet on the expected value of these FAs even now after these bad starts, but its not a lock.

 

Bassitt and Senga, btw, who with the above mentioned players round out the group of guys I really wanted have been solid.  Not great but good.  Gibson has been similar, so no complaints about his acquisition, or Irvin for that matter, just that they were acquired together as the only SP upgrades.  I wanted two major upgrades, but would've been ok with one major upgrade and one cheaper (Gibson/Irvin) guy.  Its just the two cheap bandaids approach that really grinds.

 

Hopefully the trade deadline will be used to do what they declined to do over the offseason.



#205 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 09:52 AM

For this season. For their career. Would Verlander in '18 have been a significant addition for Hou considering he was having a poor season at that point and had been exposed to waivers and went unclaimed. Therefore able to be traded in August.

Not going to couch it anymore. We'll just wait till August. See who, if anybody, they bring in. Then debate your calling that significant at that time.



#206 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 09:54 AM

They wont go the "band aid" approach at the deadline. They see thrmselves as contenders and they will act accordingly. Uaing the word significant only leaves it open for prople to interpret that only as the best of the best available whoever that is. Hell there might not be a great player available at the deadline. Angels might not sell on Ohtani. Brewers might not on Burnes or Woodruff. Who else has something thats great that who is pretty clearly a non contender. Maybe the Marlins get there by July and they trade another SP. Colorado doesnt have anyone special. Nats dont. Reds dont. Royals dont.

#207 bmore_ken

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 09:54 AM

Not going to couch it anymore. We'll just wait till August. See who, if anybody, they bring in. Then debate your calling that significant at that time.

I have no doubt he'll have some sort of justification for what they do or more than likely don't do. 



#208 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 09:57 AM


I have no doubt he'll have some sort of justification for what they do or more than likely don't do.

Kid youve been called out a lot and not by me for youre uh inconsistent gaslightimg statememts you make. You aint the one to be saying shit about anyone else backtracking or trying to justify posts.

#209 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 10:35 AM

They wont go the "band aid" approach at the deadline. They see thrmselves as contenders and they will act accordingly. Uaing the word significant only leaves it open for prople to interpret that only as the best of the best available whoever that is. Hell there might not be a great player available at the deadline. Angels might not sell on Ohtani. Brewers might not on Burnes or Woodruff. Who else has something thats great that who is pretty clearly a non contender. Maybe the Marlins get there by July and they trade another SP. Colorado doesnt have anyone special. Nats dont. Reds dont. Royals dont.

More back tracking. Sorry but some of us are going to hold you to your original statement. Numerous significant additions.


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#210 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 10:40 AM


More back tracking. Sorry but some of us are going to hold you to your original statement. Numerous significant additions.

Rofl ok. Do you. I already said you geniuses expect significant to mean like Ohtani and Woodruff and Burnes. Guys who likely wont even be available. That was never the intention of the word significant in the first place. It was meant as guys who clearly improve this Os team and will take real prospects to obtain.



#211 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 10:51 AM

Rofl ok. Do you. I already said you geniuses expect significant to mean like Ohtani and Woodruff and Burnes. Guys who likely wont even be available. That was never the imtention of the word significant in the first place. It was meant as guys who clearly improve this Os team and will take real prospects to obtain.

That would meet the significant test for me. The test will be "clearly improve". I get its hard to put specifics behind statements like these. Its a lot of you'll know it when you see it. So again, we can really have some fun come August discussing just what changes are actually made and if they do "clearly improve" the team.

 

Now here's what we'd all love to see. Some changes that we agree across the board clearly do improve the team. Wouldn't that make for a fun run to October!


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#212 weird-O

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 10:58 AM

Rofl ok. Do you. I already said you geniuses expect significant to mean like Ohtani and Woodruff and Burnes. Guys who likely wont even be available. That was never the imtention of the word significant in the first place. It was meant as guys who clearly improve this Os team and will take real prospects to obtain.

I follow what you're saying, and it's clear you aren't talking about any elite players. But the term "significant" offers wide parameters. It's probably too early to even ask for a couple examples of players who fit the tier you're talking about. But this thread will develop over the season, so I'm sure the opportunity will present itself. 


Good news! I saw a dog today.


#213 makoman

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 11:10 AM

Significant is kinda a you know it when you see it thing. Bud Norris or Andrew Miller would have qualified IMO. Alejandro de Aza and Gerardo Parra wouldn't. 


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#214 Mackus

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 11:12 AM

I always like using our own guys as examples in these sorts of things.  Works well for prospects, can also work here...Would Gibson or Frazier clones be considered significant additions?  I'd say no, even if they're having good seasons.  They would be more of the same that we saw this offseason.  

 

If no elite players get dealt, then its more understandable to have only added significant guys.  But if the guys we all are gonna want do get moved, but moved elsewhere and the O's come up empty, that's going to be frustrating even if they instead make one or two significant, i.e. good but not great additions.  Very frustrating if they don't even go as far as significant.


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#215 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 11:33 AM

I like saying we will move signicant prospects. Mayo, povich, westburg, hall, norby, ortiz. Ill be conservative and say at least 1 of those guys who has made a recent top 100 list will be moved. Id take the over on 1 of them but Ill keep it conservative for now

#216 makoman

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 11:51 AM

Yeah, the cost can indicate significance. If they move a top ~10 guy that's significant. Not a Hernaiz for Irvin type of move but one of those type of guys you mentioned.



#217 Slidemaster

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 11:57 AM

Logic says they will absolutely be moving prospects for impact MLB players because that's what contending teams do.

Logic also said they would sign someone of consequence last offseason or would have made a trade for an impact player.

They didn't. They haven't.

It doesn't mean they won't start now, as they absolutely should, but Elias has his own timeline and own ideas about what to do and when to do it, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him only acquire complimentary pieces (4th outfielders, bullpen arms, etc.) only.

#218 Mackus

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 12:17 PM

Doesn't mean this deadline will be the same, but there have been some well-beyond significant names moved in recent years.  So I am not gonna be completely willing to accept the "the guys we wanted weren't available" argument if we don't do anything.  Not outright rejecting it ahead of time, either, but sometimes you gotta do things on your end to make those guys become available.



#219 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 12:26 PM

The entire National League is within 5 games of a Wild Card.

Really only KC and Oakland are eliminated in the AL.

Let's see what this looks like in a month; as we should have a better sense of what's available.
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#220 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 30 May 2023 - 12:26 PM

First off a BP arm isnt a complimentary piece. Its a huge need. Now the actual arm may only be a meh guy but we got enough meh guys in the pen. If they acquire an arm for out there it will be someone expected to be an A team guy




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