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Too early to talk trade?


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#41 dude

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 07:40 PM

I don't see the move for pitching available today.

 

O's could use a bat.  If Gunner was hitting 3rd and the offense was rolling, don't worry about it.  If you want to move on something (other reasons to do it) then you have to find teams/players that make sense. If you think Cowser is the answer, great, but we probably don't see him until SEP.

 

There's one team that could really use a SS today.  You don't have to play with them, but you can.

 

We have a BP alignment issue coming up.

 

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#42 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 08:06 PM

We will probably put Urias and Gibson on the block because we aren’t 20 games above .500

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#43 BobPhelan

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 08:53 PM

We will probably put Urias and Gibson on the block because we aren’t 20 games above .500


As they should as long as Westburg/Ortiz and DL Hall are ready.
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#44 BobPhelan

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 08:55 PM

Bob, if you can put the Ortiz love aside, do you agree with 2035s assessment.

What role does Ortiz ever play on the Orioles? Rushing could be an amazing pairing with Adley in a couple years, no?


I like Rushing but we already have good depth at catcher (Handley, Ardoin, Retzbach, Basallo, Willems) and I think bare minimum Ortiz will be a role player on this team long term. Maybe regular 2B or SS. Mateo isn’t for real.

#45 DuffMan

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 09:01 PM

We will probably put Urias and Gibson on the block because we aren’t 20 games above .500


Throw in Frazier too and then we could really improve!

#46 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 09:59 PM


I like Rushing but we already have good depth at catcher (Handley, Ardoin, Retzbach, Basallo, Willems) and I think bare minimum Ortiz will be a role player on this team long term. Maybe regular 2B or SS. Mateo isn’t for real.

Hes real for the next 2 years unless hes a part of a big package. Mateo will end as a 3-4 WAR SS again this year. As much as I like Ortiz, thats his ceiling. As much as you may like Westburg, that his ceiling. Mateo is a lock to do it if healthy.

#47 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 10:01 PM

LA isnt trading for an unproven rookie SS. And I love Ortiz but it makes no sense from their end. Bob explained why it makes no sense from the Os end. If youre gonna trade Ortiz its in a package for a player that helps the team now. Thats so obvious

#48 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 10:05 PM

Oh and if Cowser is healthy it wont take him til Sept to get to Baltimore. Thats cray. He could be part of a trade but even still I expect him to debut sometime in June. If not May.

#49 dude

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 10:07 PM

Oh and if Cowser is healthy it wont take him til Sept to get to Baltimore. Thats cray. He could be part of a trade but even still I expect him to debut sometime in June. If not May.

 

It's SEP so they can hold his rookie status and get draft pick opportunity in 2024.  Has nothing to do with play between the lines in 2023



#50 CantonJester

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 10:09 PM

Oh and if Cowser is healthy it wont take him til Sept to get to Baltimore. Thats cray. He could be part of a trade but even still I expect him to debut sometime in June. If not May.

 

If Cowser is part of a trade, then there better be a young, TOR potential arm coming back.

 

(And I think you're out over your skis re: Mateo)..



#51 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 10:09 PM

Urias is a perfect uti guy. Os arent going to be trading away major league assets unless its for major league assets in return. We are getting to the point where we could see major league for major league trades. Those are always interesting and fun. Prob less likely to happen in season but would expect it next offseason.

#52 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 10:11 PM

If Cowser is part of a trade, then there better be a young, TOR potential arm coming back.

(And I think you're out over your skis re: Mateo)..

Mateo put up 3.4 WAR last year. Hes is at 1.6 this year despite the recent slump. How do you figure he isnt at 3-4 WAR guy minimum if hes healthy. Thats what is crazy.


But a Cowser trade doesnt have to be for a particularly young TOR starter. Id do it for a stud with a 1 or 2 left of team control.

#53 BSLRoseKatz

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 10:20 PM

It's SEP so they can hold his rookie status and get draft pick opportunity in 2024.  Has nothing to do with play between the lines in 2023

Yeah idk if it'll happen for Cowser but I'll be shocked if the Gunnar promotion timing they did last year won't happen again for others going forward. I'd guess it happening for Kjerstad is more likely.


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#54 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 10:24 PM


It's SEP so they can hold his rookie status and get draft pick opportunity in 2024. Has nothing to do with play between the lines in 2023

They arent slowplaying anything. I know some think they are slowplaying Westburg but that has more to do with playing time. I dont think they see him as a 2b and he isnt replacing Mateo or Henderson at 3b. With Cowser the spot is open and its apparent. Right now. They need his skillset. A better OF defender than Hays and Santander and ideally another solid avg and obp guy in the lineup.

#55 CantonJester

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 10:25 PM

Mateo put up 3.4 WAR last year. Hes is at 1.6 this year despite the recent slump. How do you figure he isnt at 3-4 WAR guy minimum if hes healthy. Thats what is crazy.


But a Cowser trade doesnt have to be for a particularly young TOR starter. Id do it for a stud with a 1 or 2 left of team control.

 

Let me just state - I'm not here to pile on Mateo. But I don't care if WAR found him to be a 4.5 last year. He's not contributing when he's got an 83 OPS+ (with a .267 OBP). 

 

I hope it's the injuries and the league hasn't adjusted to him. 



#56 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 10:30 PM

Of course hes contributed despite being at 83+. Ill also easily take the over on 90+ for this year if anyone thinks hes been exposed so badly all of a sudden

#57 CantonJester

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 10:34 PM

Of course hes contributed despite being at 83+. Ill also easily take the over on 90+ for this year if anyone thinks hes been exposed so badly all of a sudden

 

He's a career 86 OPS+. I'm not sure "all of a sudden" is applicable to Mateo. 



#58 BobPhelan

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Posted 15 May 2023 - 06:20 AM

Mateo put up 3.4 WAR last year. Hes is at 1.6 this year despite the recent slump. How do you figure he isnt at 3-4 WAR guy minimum if hes healthy. Thats what is crazy.


But a Cowser trade doesnt have to be for a particularly young TOR starter. Id do it for a stud with a 1 or 2 left of team control.

 

When I say he's not real, I mean the offense he showed to start the season. He clearly made changes that worked and would make him one of the best players in the league if he could maintain it. Maybe they can get him back on track but:

 

3/30-4/16: .372 (1.082), 193 wRC+, 9.4% BB rate, 17% K rate

4/18-5/14: .194 (.590), 57 wRC+, 2.9% BB rate, 21.4% K rate

 

The good news is the strikeout rate still isn't bad in that second stretch but in May its 30% with a 2.5% walk rate and .260 OPS, -36 wRC+ over 40 plate appearances.



#59 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 15 May 2023 - 02:13 PM

When I say he's not real, I mean the offense he showed to start the season. He clearly made changes that worked and would make him one of the best players in the league if he could maintain it. Maybe they can get him back on track but:

3/30-4/16: .372 (1.082), 193 wRC+, 9.4% BB rate, 17% K rate
4/18-5/14: .194 (.590), 57 wRC+, 2.9% BB rate, 21.4% K rate

The good news is the strikeout rate still isn't bad in that second stretch but in May its 30% with a 2.5% walk rate and .260 OPS, -36 wRC+ over 40 plate appearances.

We've found out he is still extremely streaky. Im not concerned about another hot streak coming. Its just when.

#60 Mackus

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Posted 15 May 2023 - 02:21 PM

We've found out he is still extremely streaky. Im not concerned about another hot streak coming. Its just when.

 

It didn't last season, he only had the one hot streak.  But if you look at it as a continuation starting last July then he's been red hot for like 2 of the past 4 1/2 months, so that's rather encouraging.

 

I tend to agree that he's gonna be able to find some more good weeks here on forward, though I'll vote under on any 900+ OPS months.  But I also think its reasonably likely that doesn't happen and he's a total disaster the rest of the year.  I've got a lot more confidence in him now than heading into the season, but not necessarily a lot of confidence.  Lots of trust in the glove.






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