123 replies to this topic

[BSLRoseKatz]

https://baltimorespo...ier-in-context/

 

Looked at the two FAs who have actually played this year based on similarly priced FAs, their production vs last year's roster and how good they are relative to the entire league 

[CantonJester]

Frazier also ranks 17th in the AL in PPA (pitches per plate appearance). He's actually 4th on the Orioles. 

[DuffMan]

Frazier also ranks #1 in my annoyance right now as his presence is helping block a number of guys in Norfolk who could and should be her already.

[weird-O]

I appreciate the effort put into answering the question, "has Frazier earned his paychecks to date". For me, the more important question is, why spend that money for a middling position player, when they already had in-house talent, and far more pressing needs in other areas. 

[makoman]

I appreciate the effort put into answering the question, "has Frazier earned his paychecks to date". For me, the more important question is, why spend that money for a middling position player, when they already had in-house talent, and far more pressing needs in other areas. 

I agree, for me the question was never "Will Frazier be an adequate major league player?" or "Will Frazier earn his $8M salary?" The question was "Why clog up a starting spot given what you have at middle infield in MLB/AAA?" and "Why would a cheap team spend over 10% of payroll there when some combo of Ortiz/Westburg/Urias/Norby can likely cover 80% of the production at 10% of the cost?"

[Mackus]

Agree with all the at-the-time puzzlement about Frazier and that I'd rather have rolled with what we had in the IF and used the money on Frazier elsewhere  (or spent a lot more money for a much better infielder). Still don't really see the point and think its 50/50 or better that he's released or dumped before the season ends.

 

Though I do think he made a bit more sense when there was a lot more uncertainty over Mateo.  If Mateo was at a 550 OPS for the season right now and looking like a DFA candidate, I think we'd be thinking about eventually sliding Gunnar over, then we'd have spots for Urias at 3B and someone from the group of Frazier/Vavra/Westburg/Ortiz/Norby at 2B but only Frazier and Ortiz from that group are capable of backing up SS (maybe Urias, too, but I think he outgrew that ability last year).

[mweb08]

Agree with all the at-the-time puzzlement about Frazier and that I'd rather have rolled with what we had in the IF and used the money on Frazier elsewhere (or spent a lot more money for a much better infielder). Still don't really see the point and think its 50/50 or better that he's released or dumped before the season ends.

Though I do think he made a bit more sense when there was a lot more uncertainty over Mateo. If Mateo was at a 550 OPS for the season right now and looking like a DFA candidate, I think we'd be thinking about eventually sliding Gunnar over, then we'd have spots for Urias at 3B and someone from the group of Frazier/Vavra/Westburg/Ortiz/Norby at 2B but only Frazier and Ortiz from that group are capable of backing up SS (maybe Urias, too, but I think he outgrew that ability last year).

Westburg can also play SS.

[Mackus]

Westburg can also play SS.

 

Perhaps, but I doubt he defends well enough to count as more than an emergency option.  I don't think he'd be the utility guy or backup SS in the same way that Gunnar is being utilized.  That's solely based on the general opinions I've heard about his defense, I haven't seen anything more than highlights.

[makoman]

Perhaps, but I doubt he defends well enough to count as more than an emergency option.  I don't think he'd be the utility guy or backup SS in the same way that Gunnar is being utilized.  That's solely based on the general opinions I've heard about his defense, I haven't seen anything more than highlights.

I agree with you based on reports, people seem to say he won't really be a SS, but at the same time they keep playing him there a significant amount, even this year. Versatility is one thing, but if he's only an emergency option I'd wish he'd focus more on getting better at positions he will actually play.

[mweb08]

Perhaps, but I doubt he defends well enough to count as more than an emergency option. I don't think he'd be the utility guy or backup SS in the same way that Gunnar is being utilized. That's solely based on the general opinions I've heard about his defense, I haven't seen anything more than highlights.

I thought he was considered passable or better at short.

[mweb08]

Keith Law in 2021:
He played surprisingly well at shortstop, but I’d bet on him ending up at third base in the majors because he’ll be bumped aside by a plus defender.

From a Camden Chat article after last season:

What’s great, too, is that Westburg is doing all of this while occupying premium real estate on the diamond. In 2022, Westburg started at least 37 games at each of second base, third base, and shortstop. He’s not known for defensive brilliance, but he is reliable. Asked which is Westburg’s best spot with the glove, Triple-A manager Buck Britton hesitated and said, “That’s hard to say. He is steady Eddie out there…. Wherever he plays, he is a guy you can put there and trust he’ll make the routine play every time.”

From mlb.com's current writeup:

Westburg has seen most of his time as a pro at shortstop, and he has the arm strength and moves well enough to play capably there. At second base or third base, he could be at least an above-average defender, and it’s looking like he’s going to have the power-hitting offensive profile that fits well at the hot corner.

[makoman]

Yeah all that sounds at least passable.

[russsnyder]

Nice piece.

I like the way Frazier goes about his business. I really don't get the angst over his signing.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Nice piece.

I like the way Frazier goes about his business. I really don't get the angst over his signing.

Its simple.

We had in house options for essentially zero.

We could have combined his $8M plus the $12M we gave Gibson.

Added $5M and got a higher end SP.

[russsnyder]

Its simple.
We had in house options for essentially zero.
We could have combined his $8M plus the $12M we gave Gibson.
Added $5M and got a higher end SP.

Lol.

This is even more simple:

Frazier is doing a nice job as a veteran placeholder, He's essentially replaced ODor and given the in house optiobs sone more time to develop. Further, the Orioles already have one infielder, Henderson, who is struggling at the MLB level. It would be a bitch to have two young infielders struggling..

It's early, but the starting pitching has stabilized, and while I can see where another another veteran starter could've been an asset, maybe that fuy wo yuh ld have blocked Rodriguez?

Oh yeah, the early returns are that the Orioles are playing like a playoff contender despite Frazier's presence and " massive salary."

[weird-O]

Nice piece.

I like the way Frazier goes about his business. I really don't get the angst over his signing.

When the free agency season opened last winter, did you think to yourself, the team's most pressing need is at second base. And we need to be willing to commit (relative the what everyone else on the roster earns) a noteworthy percentage of our 2023 payroll to that player.  

[mweb08]

Frazier has been better than I anticipated to date. So props there. I still don't think it made any sense at the time though, and as I said in a different thread, I'm more of a process guy than a results guy.

[russsnyder]

When the free agency season opened last winter, did you think to yourself, the team's most pressing need is at second base. And we need to be willing to commit (relative the what everyone else on the roster earns) a noteworthy percentage of our 2023 payroll to that player.

It's a one year contract.

Frazier essentially replaced Odor.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Russ

 

This whole discussion has zero to do with Frazier or Gibson. Nothing wrong with those guys at all. The issue is whether we had in house options for the infield and could have parlayed that $8M savings plus what we spent on Gibson for a potentially better SP.

[bmore_ken]

Nice piece.

I like the way Frazier goes about his business. I really don't get the angst over his signing.

It was unnecessary