32 replies to this topic

[BSLMikeLowe]

As someone who happily lives very close to Orioles Park (btw I always love when I come on here and see someone bash where I live) we actually could use more restaurants to the west of OPACY.

Parenthetical part not directed at you Mike to be clear.

 

That's good, if they do end up doing this west of MLK. My point was more that Baltimore could use more of the basics vs something to try and pull in more visitors when plenty of that already exists nearby. Obviously affordable homes and grocery stores don't make lots of money for the developers, but since the state is apparently putting a lot of money into this, that ought to change the arithmetic.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Angelos is a total asshat. The insinuation here is, let’s build restaurants and shops to bring people to the stadium, so that I don’t have to spend any money on payroll.

[BSLMikeLowe]

I think people are just pissed at Angelos for holding the lease hostage over this. I’m not at all against further development in that area. Think it could be cool.

 

Precisely. If John has some great idea to develop the area, go out and pitch it to investors and get your own money. If it's a good idea, he'll get the money. Leave the Orioles out of it. But that would require effort and ingenuity on John's part. Can't have that.

 

My biggest fear is John has some sort of scheme up his sleeve to structure this new venture of his into something of his own, outside of the Orioles, and if it's a success his goal is to take the money and buy Pete's shares of the team when he dies and keep it. It would be the worst imaginable kick in the crotch if MD taxpayers fronted the money that allowed the Angelos's to keep the Orioles.

[mweb08]

That's good, if they do end up doing this west of MLK. My point was more that Baltimore could use more of the basics vs something to try and pull in more visitors when plenty of that already exists nearby. Obviously affordable homes and grocery stores don't make lots of money for the developers, but since the state is apparently putting a lot of money into this, that ought to change the arithmetic.

Even in between the park and MLK (where I live) could use more restaurants (no Bubba Gump or the like please) and south of the park if some parking was redeveloped, but yes west of MLK as well. I don't think west of MLK will be included in any of this, but that area is currently seeing some redevelopment (Pigtown is about to be a 4 brewery neighborhood for instance) but the restaurants are lagging behind.

[hallas]

Harborplace and the Gallery are essentially closed, so I suppose this could work with a redevelopment of that area.  Turn Harborplace into more of a park, and then move the shopping/Cheesecake Factory to the stadium area.

 

You've already got the casino and Top Golf on Russell Street, so maybe you could extend in that direction?  I guess you'd have to go that way, because you're blocked in the other three directions. That ends up pretty far from Camden Yards, though.  It's much closer to the Ravens.  Nearer Camden Yards, the trick would be to find land without eliminating stadium parking.  Too bad they built that stupid view-blocking, taxpayer money-losing hotel, because that would be a good location.

 

Actually, the whole thing sounds like a bad idea to me, too.

I'm OOTL, what happened to harborplace and the gallery?  I haven't been back to Baltimore in over 5 years.

[mweb08]

The Inner Harbor should also move away from being so tourist trappy. Let the beauty of the area and anchor attractions (aquarium, science center, ships, new park, pier 6) do the heavy lifting for a location that looks beautiful and features more open space for leisure (already progress here) and features more of the best parts of Baltimore (top local restaurants, food trucks, a crab deck on the water, a beer garden featuring local breweries, a once a week famers market, and retail/cultural pop ups). Let's make the occasional kayak tours more of a thing too.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Even in between the park and MLK (where I live) could use more restaurants (no Bubba Gump or the like please) and south of the park if some parking was redeveloped, but yes west of MLK as well. I don't think west of MLK will be included in any of this, but that area is currently seeing some redevelopment (Pigtown is about to be a 4 brewery neighborhood for instance) but the restaurants are lagging behind.

 

It's been a long time since I've been back, but I know UM has done some expansion west of MLK. Bringing good jobs to that area is great. If you can give those people the option to affordably and conveniently live close by too, even better. What restaurants that are in the area would then have a reason to stay open beyond just lunch hours, and those who want to open a new one would be more inclined to do so. Targeting the 17-18K people (based on last season's average) who are nearby 81 times a year, plus 8-9 Ravens games, isn't bad per se, but doesn't seem like something that would be a difference-maker.

[mweb08]

It's been a long time since I've been back, but I know UM has done some expansion west of MLK. Bringing good jobs to that area is great. If you can give those people the option to affordably and conveniently live close by too, even better. What restaurants that are in the area would then have a reason to stay open beyond just lunch hours, and those who want to open a new one would be more inclined to do so. Targeting the 17-18K people (based on last season's average) who are nearby 81 times a year, plus 8-9 Ravens games, isn't bad per se, but doesn't seem like something that would be a difference-maker.

There are a lot of people that live in Ridely's Delight and Pigtown. It's mostly residential and a lot of University of Maryland people already live in these neighborhoods (the biggest driver of the population/development, not the stadiums). The new breweries aren't relying on the O's and Ravens games; there is a population here that can sustain more restaurants. Food trucks at the breweries are currently filling part of that void but otherwise people in these neighborhoods are largely going to other parts of the city for dinner.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I'm OOTL, what happened to harborplace and the gallery?  I haven't been back to Baltimore in over 5 years.

 

The Gallery closed its food court maybe 5 years ago to open a coworking space.  Surprisingly, this had a drastic effect on weekday foot traffic, which basically put all of the stores out of business.  Harborplace was sold to out of state owners maybe 10 years ago.  They had promised to refurbish it, but they went bankrupt instead.  There are a few restaurants left, but basically no stores. 

 

Harborplace now has local owners, but I'm not sure anybody really knows what to do with it.  Really, is there much of a need for retail in 2023?  Is anybody going to the Inner Harbor to shop at The Gap? 

 

Baltimore’s Harborplace: Elegy to a Dead Mall | The Urbanist

[ivanbalt]

The Gallery closed its food court maybe 5 years ago to open a coworking space.  Surprisingly, this had a drastic effect on weekday foot traffic, which basically put all of the stores out of business.  Harborplace was sold to out of state owners maybe 10 years ago.  They had promised to refurbish it, but they went bankrupt instead.  There are a few restaurants left, but basically no stores.  Really, is there much of a need for retail in 2023?  Is anybody going to the Inner Harbor to shop at The Gap?

Someone local bought Harborplace I believe and plan to redevelop it.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Someone local bought Harborplace I believe and plan to redevelop it.

 

Yep, and here's the current redevelopment plan (hopefully people with more vision than me are working on it and actually have a viable plan).

[BSLChrisStoner]

https://forum.baltim...r-harbor-place/

[hallas]

The Gallery closed its food court maybe 5 years ago to open a coworking space.  Surprisingly, this had a drastic effect on weekday foot traffic, which basically put all of the stores out of business.  Harborplace was sold to out of state owners maybe 10 years ago.  They had promised to refurbish it, but they went bankrupt instead.  There are a few restaurants left, but basically no stores. 

 

Harborplace now has local owners, but I'm not sure anybody really knows what to do with it.  Really, is there much of a need for retail in 2023?  Is anybody going to the Inner Harbor to shop at The Gap? 

 

Baltimore’s Harborplace: Elegy to a Dead Mall | The Urbanist

 

Thanks for the cliff's notes.  I still identify as Baltimorean even though I'm pretty settled out here in LA (I've lived here for 18 years now and I've bought a house.)  I read stuff like this and it kind of dawns on me how disconnected I am from Maryland these days despite the fact that I religiously cheer for their sports teams.