74 replies to this topic

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Look. Bottom line is Mateo played a GG caliber SS last year. Ortiz is supposed to be a wicked SS. Henderson a good glove at 3b. Urias won a GG at 3b too These guys are all ahead of Westburg at SS and 3b. So the spot is there at 2b if the Os want to play him there. If they are comfortable with him there. They chose to sign Frazier instead. Vavra aint blocking him thats for sure. Its there for the taking at any point in '23 if he can really play that position adequately enough.

[BobPhelan]

With respect you all thought Vavra would be fine at 2b. If Westburg is fine at 2b like Vavra is fine at 2b then he shouldnt play 2b.

 

Fair, speaking for myself I didn't realize how much of a liability his arm was. I still think Vavra could be "fine" there but Westburg at least has a strong accurate arm. More in the Urias camp than Vavra camp IMO at that position.

[Mike in STL]

Didn't Vavra have like one bad game at 2B, and then it was like, "well he can't play there ever again."

 

A little short sighted I think. Regardless. They should have better options to play the position everyday. 

[Mike in STL]

You can, as in its possible, have big 2b but that transition from the left side to right side for someone 6'3 I cant tell you how harder it is than someone 5'10 and more agile like Ortiz.


Quick someone tell me all the noteable 6'3 2b out there. Or non notebale ones. Hes a left side guy and when the Os never play him there Im not gonna hear well he couldve done it. There will have been a reason they never did it.

Lol.

 

If you think height is a factor for any player, then you don't know Elias and Mejdal's scouting mindset. 

[Mike in STL]

I imagine MIke Elias as a kid making the least exciting Christmas list ever but still being excited when the day arrived because he got everything he wanted.

Haha! Socks. Underwear, plain ones, not superhero ones. A toothbrush, non-electric. Best Christmas ever!

[Mackus]

Lol.

 

If you think height is a factor for any player, then you don't know Elias and Mejdal's scouting mindset. 

 

No idea if they care about player height for 2B, so consider this off-topic.  But it does seem like they strongly prefer taller pitchers.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I mean again Ill ask to list all the reg 2b who play at 6'3 or taller. Its just a factor. Its a freaking obvious factor at that position in MLB. There are some outliers but they are undeniably outliers. He played real inning there last year though and here we are with Frazier as the OD 2b so yeah. Prob not a great sign for him. I know I know. You all know how to run a team better than our GM. It was wasting money. Frazier sucks, etc ,etc.



We will see how many reps Westburg gets at 2b in Baltimore. Ill take less than 20 innings. Happily. Not just BMore btw should he be traded.

[Mackus]

I mean again Ill ask to list all the reg 2b who play at 6'3 or taller. Its just a factor. Its a freaking obvious factor at that position in MLB. There are some outliers but they are undeniably outliers. He played real inning there last year though and here we are with Frazier as the OD 2b so yeah. Prob not a great sign for him. I know I know. You all know how to run a team better than our GM. It was wasting money. Frazier sucks, etc ,etc.



We will see how many reps Westburg gets at 2b in Baltimore. Ill take less than 20 innings. Happily.

You'd have kept Cal at 3B!

[mweb08]

Remember when Cal was too tall and too big to play SS?

[mweb08]

You'd have kept Cal at 3B!

Beat me by seconds!

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Is it not undeniable that SS has a longer track record of big players than 2b. Prove me wrong. Cal aint the only one. I mean the SS position has transitioned quite noticeably to bigger more physical guys at the position the last 25 -30 years. Not a good argument. You both are better.

[Mackus]

Cal was the only one at the time.

[makoman]

Cal was like the only one in 1982 is the point.

[mweb08]

Is it not undeniable that SS has a longer track record of big players than 2b. Prove me wrong. Cal aint the only one. I mean the SS position has transitioned quite noticeably to bigger more physical guys at the position the last 25 -30 years. Not a good argument. You both are better.

Because of Cal.

[Mike in STL]

No idea if they care about player height for 2B, so consider this off-topic.  But it does seem like they strongly prefer taller pitchers.

Maybe they have preferences if all other things are equal. But in Astroball they talk about their days in the Cardinals organization and how as new scouts they were afraid they'd be laughed out of the room by suggesting a player who didn't have prototypical measurables, even if they could play ball. Want to say Jed Lowrie was one of the guys they pitched, even though the rest of the room was in on guys with impressive "looks" and as impressive college hitting stats. Names are escaping me cause they ended up being that irrelevant. 

 

Long story short, they don't care what you look like if you can ball.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I mean Gunnar isn 6'3 too . You could see the difference in how he played on the left side vs the right side in his SSS last year. Go back and watch the reps at 2b vs SS and 3b. He just was smoother and much more comfortable on the left side. Its a different ball game. The angles different. The turn different. Those that say definitively that you can play 2b if you play SS just dont really get it at a high level. That could be true for some guys but its not understanding the real differences in the positions.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Because of Cal.

Yet we havent seen an influx of huge physical 2b. These guys are talented. Only so many SS and 3b positions on a big league team. Get that 6'2, 6'3 230 lb original SS to 2b already. If its the easy, obvious move why isnt it a regular thing

[makoman]

I mean Gunnar isn 6'3 too . You could see the difference in how he played on the left side vs the right side in his SSS last year. Go back and watch the reps at 2b vs SS and 3b. He just was smoother and much more comfortable on the left side. Its a different ball game. The angles different. The turn different. Those that say definitively that you can play 2b if you play SS just dont really get it at a high level. That could be true for some guys but its not understanding the real differences in the positions.

All that’s fair, except you went to “laughable” and “doesn’t play good defense” and “literally not a 2B” and I still say there’s not evidence of that. All the takes don’t have to be strong and hot.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

All that’s fair, except you went to “laughable” and “doesn’t play good defense” and “literally not a 2B” and I still say there’s not evidence of that. All the takes don’t have to be strong and hot.

Ill leave it at he will seemingly have ample opportunity this year. I mean its god awful Adam Frazier currently standing in his way.



BTW in a lot of ways I hope Im wrong. I want Westburg to get a look in Baltimore and its unlikely to be at SS or 3b unless a few guys in front of him go down.

[mweb08]

Sandberg and Kent are 6'2 and bigger dudes. More recently, Schoop is an example of a big 2B, although only 6'1.

Zobrist is 6'3.

I'm not stressed about his size for the position, but if the organization isn't high on him for 2B, they probably should have been seeing about trading him (maybe they have been).