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Spring Training 2023


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#441 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 11:05 AM

Or for the Tides for a few weeks

 

Per the Baltimore Banner, Rodriguez is being optioned.


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#442 BaltBird 24

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 11:27 AM

Not that I believe ST stats should be the determining factor, but I guess he should've performed a little better if he he wanted to go north with the team.

He doesn't have anything left to prove in AAA, though.

#443 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 12:52 PM

Not that I believe ST stats should be the determining factor, but I guess he should've performed a little better if he he wanted to go north with the team.

He doesn't have anything left to prove in AAA, though.

 

Agreed on both accounts.

 

This also could be something to keep Rodriguez working on regular rest, also. He could start on the Tides opening day this Friday, then take another turn on regular rest.

 

With all of this said, I don't really know what Rodriguez in Norfolk accomplishes. Unless 2035 was right all along and we're going to mess with his service time. 


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#444 Mike B

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 01:02 PM

Per the Baltimore Banner, Rodriguez is being optioned.

He has struggled a little bit in ST, and Wells has been good.  I think had he had a good spring he would have been in the rotation, but I also do not think the Orioles mind sending him down for a month to get an extra year service time.


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#445 Mike B

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 01:03 PM

I am watching the game today and Mateo's range at SS is going to be even more important, given that teams can not shift as much.  He has made two real nice plays.

Santander looks usable at first base too.


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#446 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 01:05 PM

On one hand, you can much more easily manage his innings at Norfolk to pace him for a full season.

 

On the other hand, his biggest issue in ST seemed to be going through the order the second time, something you probably aren't going to have him do very much in Norfolk if you are really managing his innings. (not to mention he's pretty much proven himself at the AAA level)



#447 Mike B

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 01:21 PM

Roch mentioning on the broadcast that Givens will likely join Tate on the IL to start the season.


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#448 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 01:43 PM

He has struggled a little bit in ST, and Wells has been good.  I think had he had a good spring he would have been in the rotation, but I also do not think the Orioles mind sending him down for a month to get an extra year service time.

 

Wells has pitched to a 5.74 ERA this spring. He's given up 2 less ERs than Grayson in 1/3 more innings. Rodriguez has a higher K rate but also a higher walk rate than Wells. I don't think there's been a big difference between them.

 

It's all academic now but given the issues with Tate and now Givens, it might've been wise to have Wells pitch out of the bullpen to solidify the late innings and let Grayson be in the rotation. I guess we'll see how it shakes out.


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#449 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 03:06 PM

It will be wise to have GRod under team control in '29

#450 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 03:43 PM

Everything Elias has done (not said) since the trade deadline last year has completely affirmed the things I said when all that went down. Literally every action shows they still don’t care about present day wins.

There is NOTHING Grayson or Westburg could’ve done to make this roster out of camp.

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#451 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 04:11 PM

Everything Elias has done (not said) since the trade deadline last year has completely affirmed the things I said when all that went down. Literally every action shows they still don’t care about present day wins.

There is NOTHING Grayson or Westburg could’ve done to make this roster out of camp.

 

I'll disagree slightly on Rodriguez. Even though I'm not thrilled about him being optioned, he did consistently struggle when trying to go through the lineup a 2nd time. Had Grayson been able to clear this hurdle, I think he would've made the roster.

 

Westburg's fate was sealed when Elias gave Adam Frazier 8 million bucks.


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#452 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 04:34 PM

I'll disagree slightly on Rodriguez. Even though I'm not thrilled about him being optioned, he did consistently struggle when trying to go through the lineup a 2nd time. Had Grayson been able to clear this hurdle, I think he would've made the roster.

Westburg's fate was sealed when Elias gave Adam Frazier 8 million bucks.

Westburg may have earned or made the team if Frazier had not been signed but I doubt he wouldve beat out Urias for the starting gig. So either way getting him reg playing time wouldve beem a valid concern

#453 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 04:56 PM

I'll disagree slightly on Rodriguez. Even though I'm not thrilled about him being optioned, he did consistently struggle when trying to go through the lineup a 2nd time. Had Grayson been able to clear this hurdle, I think he would've made the roster.

 

Westburg's fate was sealed when Elias gave Adam Frazier 8 million bucks.

 

Plus I don't think Rodriguez is an Adley type of situation where the team will end up performing vastly better with him than without him. I know we only have ST to base this on, but I don't think the dropoff from what we saw of him to Wells would be that significant at this stage.

 

It's just a question of whether you believe his issues (going multiple times through the order) can be worked out in Norfolk or if it's strictly a lesson he needs to learn in the big leagues. I really don't know, so I don't have a strong opinion about this move one way or the other.



#454 BaltBird 24

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 05:23 PM

Imagine losing Adley, Gunnar, Rodriguez to FA all within a couple years of each other.

#455 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 05:35 PM

Imagine losing Adley, Gunnar, Rodriguez to FA all within a couple years of each other.

 

They'll be traded before then.



#456 Mashed Potatoes

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 04:38 AM

It's crazy that people simultaneously hold these two thoughts in their heads.

1. Elias is an analytics genius
2. Elias thinks that 15 innings of spring training where Grayson still K'd 11+ batters per 9 proves that the #1 pitching prospect in baseball isn't ready
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#457 glenn__davis

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 05:37 AM

It's crazy that people simultaneously hold these two thoughts in their heads.

1. Elias is an analytics genius
2. Elias thinks that 15 innings of spring training where Grayson still K'd 11+ batters per 9 proves that the #1 pitching prospect in baseball isn't ready

 

It's a bit more nuanced than that.  There were reports that while the fastball and change-up looked good, the breaking stuff was slow to get going this spring.  He didn't make it through 5 IP in any of his ST starts, and in most of them had a pretty significant "blow-up" inning.  Meanwhile Wells pitched really well his last few times out after having a very respectable season last year at the MLB level.

 

If it were me I'd go with Grayson, but I do think there's a mindset change to take place.  For most of the last 3 decades or so the mindset among most fans has been to get the young guys up here to take their lumps because we've almost always been in a state of "rebuilding", whatever that meant to different front offices.  Now we have a situation where we're hopefully trying to win as many games as we can at the MLB level.  Right now, in this moment, Wells may be the best guy for that while Rodriguez takes a few starts to find the breaking stuff.  Now if he goes down there and dominates 2-3 straight starts, they need to get him up here and not mess around with him like they did last year.

 

Ultimately he's a SP and I don't think it's in any way a slam dunk that he's one of our 5 best SP right now.  I still think he will be very soon.



#458 Mashed Potatoes

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 06:53 AM

The best thing for the Orioles future is for Grayson to go through his major league growing pains ASAP. They will occur whether he does that now or in two months. If you believe a full season of Rodriguez even with potential adjustments will be better than a full season of Wells, then the decision is also the right one for the present.

This spring, Grayson Rodriguez had basically the same Stuff+ number as Sandy Alcantara. Better than Hunter Greene.
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#459 glenn__davis

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 07:24 AM

The best thing for the Orioles future is for Grayson to go through his major league growing pains ASAP. They will occur whether he does that now or in two months. If you believe a full season of Rodriguez even with potential adjustments will be better than a full season of Wells, then the decision is also the right one for the present.

This spring, Grayson Rodriguez had basically the same Stuff+ number as Sandy Alcantara. Better than Hunter Greene.

 

Well the bolded is the rub I suppose.  First of all I don't think I agree with the general premise.  We talk about how every game in April matters as much as in September - if Wells is looking good right now and Rodriguez isn't, why not ride Wells for a few starts while Rodriguez finds himself a bit in AAA? 

 

Again, I say all of this as someone who thought they left him down way too long last year.  As far as I'm concerned he could have started last year with the Orioles and I would have been good with that.


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#460 makoman

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 07:40 AM

Well the bolded is the rub I suppose. First of all I don't think I agree with the general premise. We talk about how every game in April matters as much as in September - if Wells is looking good right now and Rodriguez isn't, why not ride Wells for a few starts while Rodriguez finds himself a bit in AAA?

Again, I say all of this as someone who thought they left him down way too long last year. As far as I'm concerned he could have started last year with the Orioles and I would have been good with that.


Agree. One can think that GRod is more talented and ultimately will have better stats for 2023, and also think it’s not so clear that he will be better over the next 2 or 3 weeks.

I’d rather have him up, but I don’t think it’s the most egregious thing in the world.
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