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Should GRod be on the opening day roster?


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Poll: Should GRod be on the opening day roster. (19 member(s) have cast votes)

Should GRod make the O's out of ST?

  1. Yes he's the best pitching prospect in baseball and has nothing left to prove at AAA. (14 votes [73.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 73.68%

  2. No, keep him down until they earn the extra year of control. (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. No, he's not built up to pitch a full season and don't want to have to shut him down late season. (3 votes [15.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.79%

  4. No, both innings and extra year of control are important. (2 votes [10.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.53%

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#1 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 08:47 AM

Simple question but seems like a lot of  different views on this. Thought maybe a poll and specific topic would be fun.

 

Here are the assumptions I used to come up with the poll. You can have different criteria but this was the basis.

 

1. GRod isn't going to pitch more than about 130 innings.

2. Easier to manage his inning at AAA than in Baltimore.

3. If he's that good and the O's are that good then he needs to be pitching in August and September (and hopefully October). Yes wins in April are as important as wins in September but games are tougher late season compared to early season. 


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#2 BSLRoseKatz

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 09:14 AM

I voted yes, I think the front office is smart enough to manage his innings to last the whole year when you can use some combo of Austin Voth, Tyler Wells and Keegan Akin to pick up multiple innings if he's strictly limited to 4 innings per start in April, 5 in May and June, etc


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#3 BobPhelan

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 09:19 AM

I’m also a yes. I think they’ll give him more innings than expected plus what Jordan said. They want that RoY draft pick and I think they’ll increase their odds to get it.

#4 dude

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 09:49 AM

I voted yes, I think the front office is smart enough to manage his innings to last the whole year when you can use some combo of Austin Voth, Tyler Wells and Keegan Akin to pick up multiple innings if he's strictly limited to 4 innings per start in April, 5 in May and June, etc

 

I'll keep pointing out...given the opportunity to do it at AAA last year, they weren't able to control themselves.  NOW, we're going to put him in the ML rotation, in a season we're supposed to be competing and hoping for the playoffs where you'll want him for big games and they are going to somehow be more disciplined with more exposure and more pressure.

 

I've advocated for him starting the season, but they've put themselves in a position where everything they've said simply can't happen.  It's a numbers game and you can only put so many in the rotation at one time.

 

You can't just ask Elias about one guy.  Ask him if he expects Gibson and Irwin and Kremer and Bradish and Wells and GRod and Means and Hall to be in the rotation.  He can say "yes" but that doesn't make the math work.

 

I don't think "service time manipulation" has anything to do with this.  You aren't just going to cut younger pitchers loose.  I don't think there's an issue with getting closer to 150 innings, but disagree with Chris that "innings are innings".  The effort and stress you use to complete those innings is different between MLs and MiLs.



#5 Mackus

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 09:53 AM

I voted yes, but I'm ok with no as long as he's up right after the 3 weeks needed to keep him shy of a full year.


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#6 dude

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 09:54 AM

If he's going to start the season in the rotation, I think you need to go 6-man or be willing to send him down 3 times during the year or something else.  

 

What is everyone going to say when he's at 160 in late August and they shut him down 1-game back for the playoffs.

 

Then everyone wants to question the FO and his mental toughness and all of the other ridiculous (and utterly predictable) things we've seen when other teams have done this.  Then they send him out there and he's a scoreless, 1-hitter, through 7 and...do they send him back out there?

 

You don't hit on 16 when the dealer has a 3 showing.  It make work out for you, but why would you do that.



#7 dude

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 09:58 AM

I feel like a pot hole in the Players lot will be useful.



#8 Mackus

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 10:08 AM

I feel like a pot hole in the Players lot will be useful.

 

Not for keeping Rodriguez short of the service time thresholds.  Unless you're talking about the parking lot in Sarasota, similar to Rutschman's injury last year (which didn't even earn them the time due to his ROY campaign).


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#9 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 10:12 AM

You can't just ask Elias about one guy.  Ask him if he expects Gibson and Irwin and Kremer and Bradish and Wells and GRod and Means and Hall to be in the rotation.  He can say "yes" but that doesn't make the math work.


Gibson, Irwin, Kremer, Bradish, Rodriguez - yes. 

 

Wells, Hall - no, at-least to start the year. 

 

Means - When he's ready, there will be other clarity in-front of him.



#10 Mike B

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 10:16 AM

I go back and forth on this.  I voted no, save the innings for the end of the year.  I think his innings cap is 125, so if the rules allow, I would leave him at extended ST and bring him up in May.

To be clear, I am not worried about control. I just want Grayson available down the stretch.  


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#11 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 10:17 AM

Wins matter this year, so he should be in the rotation. 

You can skip starts, and manage his innings and get him through the year. 

You want additional control into his FA years, then work with him to find a deal when he's the farthest away from FA. 


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#12 Mackus

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 10:19 AM

In 2022, 14 pitchers made a start.  7 guys made double digits (13+ actually).

In 2021 it was 15 starters and 7 double digits. 



#13 dude

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 10:27 AM

Wins matter this year, so he should be in the rotation. 

You can skip starts, and manage his innings and get him through the year. 

 

These statements don't match.  You get X.  How you deploy X is the question. 

 

The starts he's skipping or that you are limiting his innings still matter too, so whether he's in the rotation at the beginning of the year or not really has nothing to do with how you value wins because he's not getting 200+ innings this year.


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#14 Mackus

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 10:28 AM

These statements don't match.  You get X.  How you deploy X is the question. 

 

The starts he's skipping or that you are limiting his innings still matter too, so whether he's in the rotation at the beginning of the year or not really has nothing to do with how you value wins because he's not getting 200+ innings this year.

 

Yeah, this is a good point.  Unless you're talking about having no restrictions, then at some point you need to get him out of the rotation.  That could be the first few weeks.  The last few weeks.  one start skipped a month.  But someone other than (worse than?) Rodriguez makes those starts under any scenario.



#15 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 10:29 AM

These statements don't match.  You get X.  How you deploy X is the question. 

 

The starts he's skipping or that you are limiting his innings still matter too, so whether he's in the rotation at the beginning of the year or not really has nothing to do with how you value wins because he's not getting 200+ innings this year.


Sure they match. 

He's got x amount of innings in his arm this year. 

I'd like all of those innings in the Majors vs. a portion of them in the Minors.  

The way to make sure he gets each of his innings in the Majors is to occasionally skip starts... and you've certainly got guys that can fill in where necessary.



#16 Slidemaster

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 10:31 AM

I would be fine either way, but he probably would have been up last year were it not for the injury. I think it would go over very poorly if they invented a reason to keep him down.



#17 bmore_ken

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 10:32 AM

May as well see what he has so the offseason doesn't look like a complete disaster. 



#18 glenn__davis

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 10:34 AM

Wins matter this year, so he should be in the rotation. 

You can skip starts, and manage his innings and get him through the year. 

You want additional control into his FA years, then work with him to find a deal when he's the farthest away from FA. 

 

Agreed on all counts.

 

Not a believer in innings limits.  I'm not saying throw him 220 innings but even if the Orioles have some sort of innings limits you can spread those throughout the year.  Also not a believer in service time manipulation for pitchers since the attrition rate is so high.  He shouldn't waste another bullet in the minors assuming he looks good/healthy in ST.


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#19 Mackus

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 10:36 AM

May as well see what he has so the offseason doesn't look like a complete disaster. 

 

How would Rodriguez spending the April in Baltimore vs Norfolk change opinions of the offseason in any way?


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#20 dude

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 10:38 AM

Sure they match. 

He's got x amount of innings in his arm this year. 

I'd like all of those innings in the Majors vs. a portion of them in the Minors.  

The way to make sure he gets each of his innings in the Majors is to occasionally skip starts... and you've certainly got guys that can fill in where necessary.

 

OK, that's fair to a point, but he's taking a roster spot and has a limited set of use. You want all 150 innings in the majors, ok, but you are managing 162 games for the Team.  This isn't just about GRod, it's about how you attack the season.

 

They have created some other complications by making Wells a starter and some other things.  Everyone doesn't fit in the role they want...and they role they want is the best application of their Talent for making the money they can in The Game.

 

If they want to flip guys back and forth and piggy back and other things, I'm generally OK with it.  I have no idea what they are going to do but they need to do something other than just cut him loose.  That's just a product of this year and it was a product of last year too.

 

I'm not against him starting in the rotation.  I think there will be (indirect) issues.  The sky will not fall.






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