107 replies to this topic

[BSLMikeLowe]

I know it’s flashy and all, but “entertainment districts” (if I’m interpreting it properly) suck. They are huge and sit largely empty except for game days. On game days you and a friend can get a couple beers and a couple apps and your tab is damn near $100 after tip. And the food is the same crap you probably get in the stadium. If it’s anything like they have in Philly, I hate those places. Philly’s location kind of demands it because there isn’t anything near the park. One of the closer bars will shuttle you to the game.

St. Louis opened “Ballpark Village” across the street from left center field a few years back. It actually is built into the sight lines of the stadium so from home plate it looks like it’s part of the stadium. Looks nice. Rooftop stadium seats on top of one of the restaurants. But it’s a ghost town except for 81ish days a year. And way overpriced the one time we pregamed there. Atlanta, same deal. It’s all stuff better suited for the inner harbor. Atlanta had a PBR and the same stuff Baltimore already has. Baltimore doesn’t need a second location of corporate conglomerates collecting dust most of the year, do they?

I’d rather they just renovate some places nearby into neighborhood bars that actually open on not game days to serve the public. I don’t know if its still there, or still vacant. But I used to walk down Portland St. all the time from where I parked. There was a large, vacant, something, just past Quigleys. I always thought that would have been the perfect place to open a sizable bar/restaurant/live music venue.

Also haven’t been there in a decade, (it was also in December) hope it hasn’t changed into corporate awfulness, but Wrigleyville is more my jam.

Agree, those places tend to lack any authenticity or charm. The best thing they offer is the convenience of being next to the stadium, and as such I’d guess most of their customers are those who seldom attend games or are first-timers. Regulars probably already have a preferred routine they won’t break.

 

My pregame spot was Camden Pub, but I heard it closed a few years ago. The food and beer selection were ok, it was right across the street from a UM garage, it was never crowded on a weeknight (so you were sure to be done in time) and it was always kind of cool to walk past Babe Ruth’s birthplace when you made your way to the stadium.

[CantonJester]

What about the hotel from Gorky Park? Are the restaurants/bars that were built into that complex still there?

[Ravens2006]

So what would be the reason, if you are John Angelos, for not exercising the 5-year option?...

Probably what I've believed for many years now... minimize all long term commitments of ALL kinds (financial and other) until Peter passes away, the capital gains tax hit decreases significantly, and they're free to do whatever they want with the team. 75% John wants to sell, 23% chance John wants to move it, and about a 2% chance he wants to continue ownership by the family in Baltimore. They've just been biding time for years now, waiting for the inevitable...

Root hard for sell...

[Mike B]

About the attendance of a game in BMore of late. Ill stop

The Elias plan has as much to do with the attendance as any other factor.  The product on the field was not major league caliber before last year.

[Mike B]

MLB and the Union weren't comfortable with games being played at Buffalo... they required upgrades to that AAA stadium. Vanderbilt plays in a college stadium.

You think MLB is going to approve moving the Orioles to one of the few markets that could possibly support an MLB team.... when they have Oakland and Tampa Bay needing new homes?

I admit John Angelos and the family drama has me nervous but after reading the Press release last night, it feels like Angelos and the new Governor are trying to make things political and shift credit for the revitalized Camden Yards area to the new administration.  John mentioned Moore was a friend, so I am hoping he will sign on the dotted line.

The Orioles always seem to drag things along.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I admit John Angelos and the family drama has me nervous but after reading the Press release last night, it feels like Angelos and the new Governor are trying to make things political and shift credit for the revitalized Camden Yards area to the new administration.  John mentioned Moore was a friend, so I am hoping he will sign on the dotted line.

The Orioles always seem to drag things along.

Or to have someone lined up ready to blame, if the unthinkable does happen. I still don't have a good feeling about any of this, mainly because nothing the Orioles have ever done in my lifetime warrants any sort of trust whatsoever. 

[BSLMikeLowe]

I admit John Angelos and the family drama has me nervous but after reading the Press release last night, it feels like Angelos and the new Governor are trying to make things political and shift credit for the revitalized Camden Yards area to the new administration.  John mentioned Moore was a friend, so I am hoping he will sign on the dotted line.

The Orioles always seem to drag things along.

Those were empty words from a man that has proven himself a liar. Only his actions can speak for him. And his most recent action was declining to make a five year commitment to the city that could easily have been voided if a long term agreement was achieved before it ended. When given the opportunity to make a token gesture that could have given nervous people a chance to exhale for just a bit, he said no. That said far more than the press release.

[Mike B]

Those were empty words from a man that has proven himself a liar. Only his actions can speak for him. And his most recent action was declining to make a five year commitment to the city that could easily have been voided if a long term agreement was achieved before it ended. When given the opportunity to make a token gesture that could have given nervous people a chance to exhale for just a bit, he said no. That said far more than the press release.

Fair enough, and if that is the case, his friend in the State House has a problem.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Fair enough, and if that is the case, his friend in the State House has a problem.

And I think that is the most likely explanation for this. Scare the public, most of whom remember or are at least well aware of 1984, to the point they are contacting the governor’s office to not let the Orioles leave. And obviously a new governor doesn’t want the signature moment of his first year in office to be video of Mayflower vans pulling away from the warehouse after midnight on January 1. With that leverage, John might be able to get whatever he wants from the state. If it’s not working, don’t be surprised if some rumors start making their way around about interest in specific cities, just to toss some more fuel on the fire.

[Mike B]

And I think that is the most likely explanation for this. Scare the public, most of whom remember or are at least well aware of 1984, to the point they are contacting the governor’s office to not let the Orioles leave. And obviously a new governor doesn’t want the signature moment of his first year in office to be video of Mayflower vans pulling away from the warehouse after midnight on January 1. With that leverage, John might be able to get whatever he wants from the state. If it’s not working, don’t be surprised if some rumors start making their way around about interest in specific cities, just to toss some more fuel on the fire.

I lived 1984 and the Colt departure.  This feels a little similar, but the press release yesterday was a joint message for John Angelos and Wes Moore.  Maybe, it is about more $$$, but the Orioles were already promised 600 M to revitalize not only CY but the area around it.  

 

The Ravens have already inked their deal, without any of the drama or fanfare.  The Orioles (John Angelos) have made this a circus.  

One organization does things with class, the other makes a mess.

Again, I still do not believe the Orioles are going anywhere, but the jerk does have me nervous.

[mdrunning]

Open financial commitments such as long-term leases typically aren't attractive to potential buyers, regardless of the industry. Maybe John Angelos figured this out (I doubt it) or was advised to defer such on such an arrangement. It would then give the next owner the latitude to negotiate better terms on their own.

[makoman]

Open financial commitments such as long-term leases typically aren't attractive to potential buyers, regardless of the industry. Maybe John Angelos figured this out (I doubt it) or was advised to defer such on such an arrangement. It would then give the next owner the latitude to negotiate better terms on their own.

In general sure, but in the scheme of major league sports teams <5 years isn't very long. If he's not selling in 2023 they need to figure out something for next year anyway, and I don't see how the extension would be a big deal.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Open financial commitments such as long-term leases typically aren't attractive to potential buyers, regardless of the industry. Maybe John Angelos figured this out (I doubt it) or was advised to defer such on such an arrangement. It would then give the next owner the latitude to negotiate better terms on their own.

 

Unless a sale occurs within the next 11 months (and wouldn't that be wonderful) then I don't see how this theory holds water. If John wanted as few long-term financial commitments as possible leading up to a potential sale within the time frame it would likely occur, the 5-year extension would have seemed the most logical choice.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Again, I still do not believe the Orioles are going anywhere, but the jerk does have me nervous.

 

And that's exactly what he wants.

 

I'd be cautious in drawing too many parallels between the Ravens and Orioles on this particular topic though. The NFL shares nearly all of its revenues equally among the teams, while MLB teams are much more reliant on the locally-generated revenues they keep. That likely makes the minutiae of the Orioles' stadium lease more important than the Ravens. Also, because the Ravens still had 5 years left on their original lease, they didn't have as much negotiating leverage.

 

Make no mistake though, John Angelos is not to be trusted, and I would say no option is off the table with him.

[BaltBird 24]

I'll agree that a 5 year commitment means nothing to whoever could potentially buy the team. It also wouldn't seem as though it would have much impact on negotiating an even longer deal.

Basically, as an uneducated, barely functioning adult human, I see no reason why they wouldn't have signed the short lease.

I don't think they're going anywhere, but my disdain for the Angelos family grows by the day.

[You Play to Win the Game]

If they truly are negotiating in good faith, not signing the extension moves the expiration date/urgency of said negotiations up from 5 years to one year. That is the benefit from the perspective of the Angelos family. If it isn't in good faith - I can't even bring myself to really think about that. 

[BaltBird 24]

If they truly are negotiating in good faith, not signing the extension moves the expiration date/urgency of said negotiations up from 5 years to one year. That is the benefit from the perspective of the Angelos family. If it isn't in good faith - I can't even bring myself to really think about that.

As you've said, I'll reserve judgement that any move by the Angelos owned Oriole franchise is in good faith.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

There will be a magic number countdown that begins around OD and unfortunately it wont be our number to reach the playoffs. Itll be the number of days until the lease is up and the Os skip town.

[weird-O]

There will be a magic number countdown that begins around OD and unfortunately it wont be our number to reach the playoffs. Itll be the number of days until the lease is up and the Os skip town.

Out of curiosity, what cities do you think are possible landing spots, that could have a MLB caliber stadium for them to play in next season? 

I'm all for speculating that this is John's secret agenda. I'll even entertain the idea that he has already been in clandestine discussions with political leadership in one or more cities/states. But there would have to be a temporary destination with a former MLB site, like Montreal or Dallas/Ft Worth, until a new ballpark is completed. But that would be an expensive and unnecessary layover. The smarter move would be to sign the 5 yr lease, then get to work finalizing a deal to move to his preferred city. That gives MLB plenty of time to approve the move, the destination city has plenty of time to secure a site and financing for the new palace. Meanwhile in Baltimore, attendance may drop off, but they're already use to small crowds, so it's not like he'll be shooting himself in the foot for the short term. 

 

I'll mention this again. Wanting to move, and having somewhere to move, are two very different things.    

[mdrunning]

Out of curiosity, what cities do you think are possible landing spots, that could have a MLB caliber stadium for them to play in next season? 

I'm all for speculating that this is John's secret agenda. I'll even entertain the idea that he has already been in clandestine discussions with political leadership in one or more cities/states. But the destination would have to be a former MLB site, like Montreal or Dallas/Ft Worth, until a new ballpark is completed. But that would be an expensive and unnecessary layover. The smarter move would be to sign the 5 yr lease, then get to work finalizing a deal to move to his preferred city. That gives MLB plenty of time to approve the move, the destination city has plenty of time to secure a site and financing for the new palace. Meanwhile in Baltimore, attendance may drop off, but they're already use to small crowds, so it's not like he'll be shooting himself in the foot for the short term. 

 

I'll mention this again. Wanting to move, and having somewhere to move, are two very different things.    

Good post, but for any of this to happen, the Orioles would need the approval of MLB, which isn't likely. 

 

If history is any precedent, baseball simply does not allow teams to move with impunity. Since the onset of the 20th century, only 12 franchises have relocated. I would think that MLB would much prefer to put expansion teams eventually in cities such as Nashville, Portland, et. al. If nothing else, it would lead to some very hefty expansion fees.