107 replies to this topic

[Mackus]

Probably trying to get MSA to let them defer half of the annual rent at 0% interest.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

And what does it matter to you if youre gonna sell once old man dies. Almost surely that will be within 5 years.

[BSLChrisStoner]

So what would be the reason, if you are John Angelos, for not exercising the 5-year option? I have to believe there would be no language in that extension that would preclude them from agreeing to and executing a long-term lease before the 5-years is up. So why not buy a little more time and put the public at ease (and end the questions from the media you obviously don't want to answer)?

 

Only two things make sense here. Either they want the option to leave after the season, or they want to have the leverage that the threat of leaving gives them in order to negotiate more favorable terms in a long-term lease (perhaps $600M isn't enough for them, or they want a whole new stadium). Still, the obfuscation is both concerning and off-putting. If you are demanding something from the public, come out and say what that is. It's all going to have to be approved by the state assembly anyway, so you can't hide it forever.

 

Leverage coupled by the Orioles usual operating procedure of doing everything on their own time schedule and trying to get the maximum concessions from everyone. 

I've spoken with leadership of the Orioles, the Stadium Authority, City, and State...  many people weren't sure the option would be picked up. No one I've spoken to has any concern of the Orioles leaving. Many have assured me there is 0% chance of the O's leaving. 

 

My own opinion remains that there is 0.0% chance of the Orioles leaving. 

If people are scared, and believe it's a real threat....  that's fine.
The O's are making this a story by not getting a deal done. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

The option they bail on Baltimore after '23 is real.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

By all means Im wrong to be concerned. Totally get 0.0% now. If I had only known it was the politicans and the Os themselves that you spoke to

[Nigel Tufnel]

Doesn't baseball's antitrust exemption mean that the league can prevent teams from moving?  It seems doubtful that the league would let the O's move, especially since they're already looking for a new city for the A's.

[BSLMikeLowe]

The option they bail on Baltimore after '23 is real.

 

But where would they go? What city on the relocation short-list has a suitable temporary facility that could accommodate them in 2024-25 until a new place is built? Only place that comes to mind is Montreal.

 

I would think if they were seriously entertaining leaving we'd be seeing smoke from the potential landing spots. Of course to fully take advantage of the negotiating leverage the relocation card provides, you typically have to appear ready to follow through on it. But given Baltimore's history, maybe John simply sees the memories of the Colts leaving as being enough to really put the screws to the public.

[BSLChrisStoner]

By all means Im wrong to be concerned. Totally get 0.0% now. If I had only known it was the politicans and the Os themselves that you spoke to

What can I tell you?  Believe what you want. You can think I'm clueless or naïve. I'm good with that and really don't care what you think about me.  You want to be scared, be scared. 

[BSLMikeLowe]

Doesn't baseball's antitrust exemption mean that the league can prevent teams from moving?  It seems doubtful that the league would let the O's move, especially since they're already looking for a new city for the A's.

 

Theoretically, yes. Though we know MLB would love nothing more than to get out of that MASN deal it cut. Letting the Orioles leave might be the only way that would ever happen.

[Nigel Tufnel]

What can I tell you?  Believe what you want. You can think I'm clueless or naïve. I'm good with that and really don't care what you think about me.  You want to be scared, be scared. 

 

Who was that poster who always thought the sky was about to fall?  I wonder what ever happened to him...

[BaltBird 24]

I can't see MLB allowing the Angelos family to just up and move the franchise while OPACY is still one of the best venues in the sport, especially considering it's not all that likely that the team will even be in control of the Angelos family in another 5-10 years.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Theoretically, yes. Though we know MLB would love nothing more than to get out of that MASN deal it cut. Letting the Orioles leave might be the only way that would ever happen.

 

That's true, although MLB would also have some leverage over the MASN situation if the O's were sold and the league needed to approve the new owners.  Also, MASN becomes less of an issue every time a cable is cut.

[BSLMikeLowe]

That's true, although MLB would also have some leverage over the MASN situation if the O's were sold and the league needed to approve the new owners.  Also, MASN becomes less of an issue every time a cable is cut.

 

That scenario would require the Angelos's to negotiate something before they would put the team up for sale, since no bidder is going to commit to a sale price without knowing the terms ahead of time....pretty much like what we're seeing right now just down I-95.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I have no need to defend being "scared". I will however continue to point out any arrogance that says 100% when they just passed on a lease extension and are now 11 months away from being able to leave scot free.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

But where would they go? What city on the relocation short-list has a suitable temporary facility that could accommodate them in 2024-25 until a new place is built? Only place that comes to mind is Montreal.

I would think if they were seriously entertaining leaving we'd be seeing smoke from the potential landing spots. Of course to fully take advantage of the negotiating leverage the relocation card provides, you typically have to appear ready to follow through on it. But given Baltimore's history, maybe John simply sees the memories of the Colts leaving as being enough to really put the screws to the public.

Real class act owner no matter what.



They can play baseball anywhere for a year or two and Manfred and MLB doesnt care if BMore gets left out. DC and Phi have teams. Thats all they care about. I have no problem with anyone saying its likely the Os are going nowhere. Strongly think it likely. Its taking it all the way to 100% thats ridiculous.

[Slidemaster]

I wouldn't be so confident that Baltimore would be quick to get another franchise if the Orioles left. It's a dying, crime ridden city with a bleak future. Do you see any players who view Baltimore itself as a destination to play in?

There is literally zero chance that Camden Yards sits unused. None.

[BaltBird 24]

There is literally zero chance that Camden Yards sits unused. None.

I agree, which is why I can't see the Orioles going anywhere. I can't see MLB immediately rewarding Baltimore with another team if they just up and had one leave.

How often does that happen in pro sports? Cleveland waited, what, 3 years after the Ravens left?

[BSLMikeLowe]

I agree, which is why I can't see the Orioles going anywhere. I can't see MLB immediately rewarding Baltimore with another team if they just up and had one leave.

How often does that happen in pro sports? Cleveland waited, what, 3 years after the Ravens left?

 

It was way less than that if you count when the NFL announced they'd give them an expansion team that would take on the identity and records of the Browns. IIRC that promise was made before the Ravens ever took the field for the first time.

 

Here's the issue I see with a team being in a big hurry to take the Orioles place: MASN. Again, if the Orioles go away, then almost certainly MASN does too. That means a new team is going to be left to cut its own TV deal. Now is a pretty bad time to be in the market to either launch a RSN or start a new relationship with an existing one. Getting on Leonsis' RSN would seem like a no go. He's not going to want to carry a team that draws viewers from the team he will likely own soon....or if he does it is going to be a deal that is terrible for the Orioles.

 

Would a new team be willing to take the risk of going straight-up DTC with a service of their own? Seems unlikely right now....even though things are trending in that direction the adoption rate on streaming platforms just isn't there yet, and would likely result in lost revenues in the neighborhood of tens of millions a year. Would MLB let them piggyback onto MLBTV.com for local distribution? Maybe, but I still think that would come at a great cost, if lesser than trying on your own.

[BSLMikeLowe]

I have no need to defend being "scared". I will however continue to point out any arrogance that says 100% when they just passed on a lease extension and are now 11 months away from being able to leave scot free.

 

I tend to agree that it would be a mistake to assume there is an absolute zero percent chance any team would leave its city, including the Orioles. That sort of thinking leads to complacency, which can lead to unexpected outcomes. That doesn't mean you (the public) have to hand them a blank check to build things for them or that you (the consumer) have to spend your own money on them, especially when they put out an inferior product. That's each cities' or individuals' choice.

 

It should always be understood that while we view franchise owners as keepers of a public trust, really they are just shareholders who want to ensure a return on their investment. To what extent they are willing to go to maximize that return varies, but I don't think it would ever be smart to underestimate just how far any particular owner would go.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Balt Sun: Orioles to decline 5-year Camden Yards lease extension, seek to secure long-term agreement

https://www.baltimor...nt=631675291451