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2024 HOF Ballot


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#21 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 23 January 2024 - 07:23 AM

CBS Sports: 2024 Baseball Hall of Fame voting: Eight things to know about potentially dramatic reveal, plus predictions

https://www.cbssport...us-predictions/



#22 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 23 January 2024 - 04:39 PM

MASN: Some Hall of Fame balloting banter

https://www.masnspor...alloting-banter



#23 CantonJester

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Posted 23 January 2024 - 08:01 PM

The precedent is set with ARod. Barry Bonds is the greates hitter ever. Ever. And oh he stole 500+ bases and was a good fielder too. When he goes in then it opens the floodgates for some others. Not a single one of these other PED guys get a sniff of anything until you put Barry in first by himself.


If we can assume Bonds took steroids from 1999 onward, if you replace his 1999 season with his career averages, and then apply a 2% downward trend due to his age 35 season in 2000 for the rest of his career, he winds up with:

 

655 HR, a .281 avg, .396 OBP, and a .539 SLG. 

 

One of the best of all time? You betcha. The greatest hitter ever? LOL no. He cheated his behind off to get those empty #s and the sport stopped pitching to him. 

 

ETA - that would be good for 5th all time on the HR list if he hadn't gone the steroid route. 

 

I'm fine with letting the guys into the HOF, but tell the entire story. 



#24 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 23 January 2024 - 08:17 PM

The greatest hitter of all time. Its not debateable though Ted puts up a fair fight. The whole league was on roids in the early 2000s and his run from 2001-2004 is the most dominant run in sports any of us have ever seen or will ever see.



#25 CantonJester

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Posted 23 January 2024 - 08:35 PM

The greatest hitter of all time. Its not debateable though Ted puts up a fair fight. The whole league was on roids in the early 2000s and his run from 2001-2004 is the most dominant run in sports any of us have ever seen or will ever see.


You're free to feel that way, but as I extrapolated out his #s, he achieved greatness without the steroids. The steroids made him have the greatest #s of all time, so yeah, I'm cool with not calling him the greatest of all time. If it didn't matter, he'd already be in Cooperstown. His OPS would've been around .935, which is good for 36th all time. His .539 SLG would be good for 37th all time. His OBP of .396 would be good for 82nd all time.

Feel free to critique how I extrapolated the final 9 years of his career (again, his own averages to that point in his 1999 season, and then a 2% penalty each year on those #s until retirement.

Baseball rules. I could not care less to do this for football players.

#26 CantonJester

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Posted 23 January 2024 - 08:43 PM

For WAR I ran a .98 of his career averages from 1999 onward and he wound up 3rd all time with a 163.9. That's probably too high considering where he wound up in his rate stats though. 

 

He probably needed something like .98, and then .95 a couple seasons and down to .9 and .8 for the remainder of his career. That would push him downward to a 146 career WAR, which would've ranked him 7th all time ahead of Hank Aaron. That's likely where he truly is as a ballplayer without the steroids.



#27 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 23 January 2024 - 08:48 PM

I will not let anyone not only do anything but praise his '01-04 run.  But crap on it and dismiss it . No sir. They all were on gas and he was the most dominant force the sport has ever seen at 36-39 yrs old. Bow down. 

 

OPS+

259

268

231

263

 

Just laughable stuff. GOAT 



#28 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 23 January 2024 - 08:51 PM

Now on to the topic at hand. The following get the call

 

Beltre

Helton

Mauer 

 

 

Mauer in year 1 is pretty questionable but whatever. Wagner should have been in years ago but whatever. At 73.6 this year so its looking really good for him in his final year next year. Utley only getting 28% is a joke. A Jones and Beltran tracking to make strong runs in the next few years. 



#29 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 23 January 2024 - 09:16 PM

Cool Fact: In addition to baseball Todd Helton played QB at Tennessee from 1992-94. In '94 he started three games before injuring his knee and being replaced by a true freshman named Peyton Manning. So now the Vols QB room that season had two future HOF'ers, one football and one baseball.

 

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#30 ivanbalt

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Posted 24 January 2024 - 07:32 AM

Feels like Mauer has been retired at least 10 years.



#31 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 24 January 2024 - 07:38 AM

I will not let anyone not only do anything but praise his '01-04 run. But crap on it and dismiss it . No sir. They all were on gas and he was the most dominant force the sport has ever seen at 36-39 yrs old. Bow down.

OPS+
259
268
231
263

Just laughable stuff. GOAT

Bonds being great (and a HOFer) isnt debatable.
How great is debatable to me.

His HOF career got better in his mid 30s and his production went to cartoon levels.

Yes, everyone else was on steroids so he shouldn't be held out from the Hall... and yes the numbers he produced are absolutely absurd... but looking at him vastly out perform his already great self as he was aging is still smh stuff for me.

It definitely taints his overall numbers for me.
It doesn't make me think he wasn't great.


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#32 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 24 January 2024 - 10:56 AM

ESPN: Winners and Losers

https://www.espn.com...elton-joe-mauer



#33 BaltBird 24

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Posted 24 January 2024 - 02:48 PM

Man, I forgot how good Gary Sheffield was. 509 career HRs, .907 career OPS.

No real amazing seasons by WAR, but just very good player for 2 decades.

#34 Mike in STL

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Posted 25 January 2024 - 11:05 AM

Man, I forgot how good Gary Sheffield was. 509 career HRs, .907 career OPS.

No real amazing seasons by WAR, but just very good player for 2 decades.


Violent swing too. I loved guys with violent swings. Eric Davis, Jose Canseco. As sweet and perfect as Griffey’s swing was, I love the trying to murder the ball ones just as much.
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#35 mdrunning

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Posted 25 January 2024 - 06:56 PM

Violent swing too. I loved guys with violent swings. Eric Davis, Jose Canseco. As sweet and perfect as Griffey’s swing was, I love the trying to murder the ball ones just as much.

The three quickest bats I've ever seen were Sheffield, Kirby Puckett and Paul Molitor. You couldn't go up the ladder on those guys because they could catch up to that high fastball.


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#36 Mike in STL

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Posted 25 January 2024 - 11:55 PM

The three quickest bats I've ever seen were Sheffield, Kirby Puckett and Paul Molitor. You couldn't go up the ladder on those guys because they could catch up to that high fastball.


Even Kirby and Molitor had the smarts to go oppo if the situation called for it. Maybe it’s bias from my youth but I’ve never seen anyone swing with aggression like Canseco. Steroid aided we later find out. But I remember as a kid visiting Camden Yards against the A’s and fearing Canseco, even more than McGwire.

McGwire had the career accolades, and Canseco is remembered for a ball bouncing off his head in the OF for a homer, and ratting out his teammates in a book. But damn, Canseco swung a bat like no one I’ve ever seen, and that stands to this day. Also never dropped the trail hand. Two hands the whole way.
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#37 NewMarketSean

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Posted 26 January 2024 - 08:52 AM

Sheffield deserves to be in. 

 

Utley does not.

 

That is all.


I never had friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?

#38 CantonJester

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Posted 27 January 2024 - 10:14 PM

Sheffield deserves to be in. 

 

Utley does not.

 

That is all.

 

I'm not going to say Utley doesn't belong. Harold Baines doesn't belong, but that's a different discussion.

 

I think Sheffield's problem is beyond the BALCO implications was the fact he was a douche. 

 

Another player with similar skillset and even a quicker slide off the ballot was Albert Belle.



#39 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 27 January 2024 - 10:19 PM

Everyone who has followed enough baseball knows Utley is worthy. Looks like he will eventually get in. These voters are getting better.

#40 mweb08

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Posted 27 January 2024 - 10:56 PM

Utley was easily good enough for the HOF, but his lack of longevity and durability makes it debatable.




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