149 replies to this topic

[bmore_ken]

Fair. He can only play well if he has the threat ability to run.

The all important one word omission

Also not remotely true and no one here has said that I'm aware of  either. I admit to not reading every post, so maybe I missed it. 

[Mike in STL]

Also not remotely true and no one here has said that I'm aware of either. I admit to not reading every post, so maybe I missed it.

Lol “Not remotely true!!!! But maybe?”

I’m not thumbing through all these posts, but some of the sentiment was, and excuse me for paraphrasing, without the threat or ability to run he’s a mediocre QB at best. Something about passing lanes only open up when the threat of the run is there.

[hallas]

Lol “Not remotely true!!!! But maybe?”

I’m not thumbing through all these posts, but some of the sentiment was, and excuse me for paraphrasing, without the threat or ability to run he’s a mediocre QB at best. Something about passing lanes only open up when the threat of the run is there.

You're probably talking about me. And I did question how successful Lamar would be because he does draw much simpler coverages because defenses have to account for his running. Obviously other QBs have succeeded despite having to face more exotic looks, but Lamar hasn't because he's never had to. I think saying he's guaranteed to play poorly if he can't run is overstating my case, but I do think he will have at least some drop-off in performance.

[jamesdean]

You're probably talking about me. And I did question how successful Lamar would be because he does draw much simpler coverages because defenses have to account for his running. Obviously other QBs have succeeded despite having to face more exotic looks, but Lamar hasn't because he's never had to. I think saying he's guaranteed to play poorly if he can't run is overstating my case, but I do think he will have at least some drop-off in performance.

As long as Lamar is healthy, he will be a running quarterback and that will be his most dangerous weapon.  Always.  Once that ceases to exist, not only will there be a drop-off in performance but he will become average at best.  

[Mike in STL]

I would have taken average at best two weeks ago. Just sayin’

[jamesdean]

I would have taken average at best two weeks ago. Just sayin’

Outside of that devasting fumble/TD return, Huntley played well I thought.  But you're right, having an average, stuck in the pocket Lamar probably would have been the better option. 

[cprenegade]

Lol “Not remotely true!!!! But maybe?”

I’m not thumbing through all these posts, but some of the sentiment was, and excuse me for paraphrasing, without the threat or ability to run he’s a mediocre QB at best. Something about passing lanes only open up when the threat of the run is there.

 

I'm on that platform also.  Lamar Jackson has never shown me anything more than a slightly above average passer.  I think he is slow reading progressions and consistently inaccurate downfield.  But his running ability is undeniable.  I just think if you made him just a dropback passer, he wouldn't be all that effective.  Sure he would have been better than Huntley or Brown, but that's like saying ground beef is better than plant based ground meat like product.  

[hallas]

I'm on that platform also. Lamar Jackson has never shown me anything more than a slightly above average passer. I think he is slow reading progressions and consistently inaccurate downfield. But his running ability is undeniable. I just think if you made him just a dropback passer, he wouldn't be all that effective. Sure he would have been better than Huntley or Brown, but that's like saying ground beef is better than plant based ground meat like product.

A couple minor points:

If you made a healthy Lamar a dropback passer he would still be effective because teams have to account for his running whether it's a pass play or not. The issue is what happens when you take a hobbled Lamar and make him a dropback passer. In that case he's definitely going to do worse.

2: we are in this thread because we are getting a new OC, and I'd really like to see how Lamar does with someone not named Greg Roman designing receiver routes before calling into his question his processing of progressions.

[Steve55]

You don't have to create an offense for Lamar. He ran a pro style offense at Louisville to near perfection. This thought that Lamar has to be in this unique, run based offense is pure ignorance.

So many people with no understanding of Lamar's actually talents. He isn't a run first guy. He doesn't have issues reading a defense. He doesn't have a weak arm. He isn't a one read QB, incapable of going through progressions. He's the best runner to ever play the QB position. That's true. So people automatically stereotype him, and it is so frustrating seeing so many bad takes on what he is capable of doing.

Just hire the best guy for the job. If Lamar is here, he will 100% be capable of running his offense. End of story.

 

 

When you make your pitch to be hired you are talking about creating what you want to do with what's on hand. You don't want to screw up what could be your only chance at that type of job.

[Biggsy]

When you make your pitch to be hired you are talking about creating what you want to do with what's on hand. You don't want to screw up what could be your only chance at that type of job.

Not really how that works in the NFL. Ravens know what style of offense, and your career tendencies as a playcaller, when they're sitting across the table from you. Unless, obviously, you're an assistant with no coordinator experience. In that case, your best move it to explain the style of offense you'd like to run. Lying about that, then either trying to run a style of offense you're not comfortable with, and don't fully understand. Or coming in and running a completely different offense than what you pitched, is a good way to get an early pink slip, and screw yourself for future jobs.

Chances are, a Shanahan disciple will pitch a Shanahan style offense. A McVay disciple with make a pitch based around a McVay style offense. ect.

And honestly, Lamar is capable of running either at a high level.

[Steve55]

Not really how that works in the NFL. Ravens know what style of offense, and your career tendencies as a playcaller, when they're sitting across the table from you. Unless, obviously, you're an assistant with no coordinator experience. In that case, your best move it to explain the style of offense you'd like to run. Lying about that, then either trying to run a style of offense you're not comfortable with, and don't fully understand. Or coming in and running a completely different offense than what you pitched, is a good way to get an early pink slip, and screw yourself for future jobs.

Chances are, a Shanahan disciple will pitch a Shanahan style offense. A McVay disciple with make a pitch based around a McVay style offense. ect.

And honestly, Lamar is capable of running either at a high level.

 

 

You explain the offense you'd like to run looking at what players the team has on hand. You won't get hired if you say, I want to run it this way when those players aren't there. You might be hoping the team can get those players but the team wants to know what you can do with what they have. Some of those schemes won't fit the personnel we have on hand.

[makoman]

So Kellen Moore going to the Chargers seems like a good thing. I expected them to take someone we'd want.

 

I can't see McCarthy trusting the kind of up and coming person I want to hire, he might get fired next year if things don't go great. I also read he might want to call his own plays. I guess Jerry will do his own thing anyway.

[Biggsy]

You explain the offense you'd like to run looking at what players the team has on hand. You won't get hired if you say, I want to run it this way when those players aren't there. You might be hoping the team can get those players but the team wants to know what you can do with what they have. Some of those schemes won't fit the personnel we have on hand.

Ravens know what they have, and they have at the very minimal, a basic profile of the candidates they're interested in. They wouldn't waste time with candidates that they felt didn't mesh with the personnel available.

The interviews are more about the intricacies of their chosen scheme. A lot of situational questions. I'd imagine something similar to the NFL version of the STAR interview method of interview. On top of feeling out their personalities.

If I'm a candidate, I know my first question is about who my QB is going to be come training camp.

[Mike B]

Dave Canales is supposedly getting a second interview,

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Canales works for me. Not that I know anything unlike some here who pretend they do.

[Mike B]

Canales works for me. Not that I know anything unlike some here who pretend they do.

Yea, I know nothing about any of these guys, Canales seemed to have helped Geno Smith for whatever that means.

[makoman]

I've talked a lot about OCs but freely admit I don't know anything.

Canales is interesting. If he had anything to do with Geno Smith and holding Wilson together the past couple years, sounds good.

[Mike B]

Justin Outten, Dave Canales and Todd Monken all getting second interviews with the Ravens.

 

Jerry Rosburg is probably in Harbs ear about Outten, so I wonder if that gives him a leg up.

[makoman]

Justin Outten, Dave Canales and Todd Monken all getting second interviews with the Ravens.

 

Jerry Rosburg is probably in Harbs ear about Outten, so I wonder if that gives him a leg up.

Also a 2nd for Brian Angelichio, Vikings TE coach/pass game coordinator.

[Mike B]

Also a 2nd for Brian Angelichio, Vikings TE coach/pass game coordinator.

Just a hunch but I think we get the next OC named by the end of next week.