109 replies to this topic

[Mackus]

I think EDC is great overall and that isn’t where I’d look to make any changes. But the criticisms are fair. Just because he’s a strong facet of the organization, doesn’t mean you can’t be critical of certain aspects of his performance.

 

Well said.  I'm placing blame on him for the weak WR room.  It could've worked out (hey, pass rush was similarly weak and that worked out), but it didn't, so he takes the blame.  But I think he's a good GM and I'm not interested in a change. 

[Biggsy]

Also, it is absolutely using hindsight. It's easy to sit back after the fact and talk about how stupid it was to go into the season like that. Everyone talking now was real quiet in week 3 when Bateman was hitting big plays, Duvernay was catching everything, and the offense looked like it was in 2019 form.

Then Bateman got hurt, and Roman started changing up their usage and his play calling. Now everyone wants to come in and pat themselves on the back like they knew Bateman would get injured, and Duvernay would be severely underused, despite showing a lot of talent every time he was given opportunities.

But hey, EDC is an idiot, should have traded away a bunch of draft capital, then went $20 million over the cap to bring in AJ Brown or Davante Adams. Or he should have signed one of those top available FA WR's that were available, like AB, Odell, Will Fuller, or Allen Robinson. Those guys really made a huge difference for their new teams.

I love people that say he ignored WR and should have did something. What? What should he have done that was realistic ? He didn't ignore it. He had a severe lack of options. And if he did go out and trade our 1st plus for Adams or Brown and signed them to a massive deal. We don't sign Williams. We don't draft Hamilton or Linderbaum. We have a massive hole somewhere else, and people will be on here complaining and blaming him for leaving a hole in the secondary and offensive line.

It's risk management. In a salary capped league, you have to pick and choose where you risk your roster on younger players developing. EDC looked at the team as a whole, and decided WR was the one position we had a lot of young talent with high potential, and it was the least important position in a Roman led offense. He chose to believe in the development of Wallace and Proche. Both regressed and were huge disappointments. And let's not pretend like everyone here knew they would turn out that way. A lot of people had that same faith in those two, on this board. He also chose to believe in his first round WR that showed a ton of potential in the second half the year before.

He was wrong. Proche and Wallace are "busts". If you can call mid-round draft picks busts. Bateman got injured again. Our OC still has no clue how to properly use Duvernay.

But please. Someone. Tell me where EDC could have improved the WR room last offseason, without leaving a massive hole somewhere else on the roster, that you'd 100% be complaining about instead?

[Mackus]

It's risk management. In a salary capped league, you have to pick and choose where you risk your roster on younger players developing. 

 

Yes, and he took on this risk and it burnt the team.  That's his error and his fault.  

[Biggsy]

Also, Harbaugh reports to EDC. At what point is going down with the Roman ship on EDC a little too?

I think EDC is great overall and that isn’t where I’d look to make any changes. But the criticisms are fair. Just because he’s a strong facet of the organization, doesn’t mean you can’t be critical of certain aspects of his performance.

If I ask you to go to the store and buy some Frosted Flakes. And you go shopping at every store in the area, and they're all out of frosted flakes, and only have the cheap knock off brand. Is it right for me to criticize you for bringing back the cheap knock off, and not bringing back Frosted Flakes ?


Point of the analogy being, if he had no other realistic options at WR, what was he supposed to do?

The ONLY thing I can see him changing, would be taking Pickens instead of Ojabo. Outside of that, he legitimately was limited in his options of improving the WR room.

[Biggsy]

Yes, and he took on this risk and it burnt the team. That's his error and his fault.

And realistically, what should he have done instead? Using all hindsight you want. Who could he have brought in that would have moved the needle, without creating a massive hole somewhere else ?

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I mean the offense wasnt built to throw to WRs much. Investing much more into the position than EDC did would have a poor use of limited resources

[You Play to Win the Game]

I mean the offense wasnt built to throw to WRs much. Investing much more into the position than EDC did would have a poor use of limited resources

 

It shouldn't have been. It's 2023. 

 

Also, it's pretty comical how you can't even get away with a small EDC criticism while praising him in the same post. That's fun.

[makoman]

Also, Harbaugh reports to EDC. At what point is going down with the Roman ship on EDC a little too?

I think EDC is great overall and that isn’t where I’d look to make any changes. But the criticisms are fair. Just because he’s a strong facet of the organization, doesn’t mean you can’t be critical of certain aspects of his performance.

The HC reports to the GM, but I think the HC needs a lot of deference as to his staff. I don't want the GM overly micromanaging coaching staff unless it's egregious. Was it egregious after last year? I could see arguments either way, the offense was fine 2019-20, but the injuries probably mostly give Roman a pass for last year.

 

Saunders on the other hand was egregious, that's a total organizational failure from top down IMO.

[You Play to Win the Game]

The HC reports to the GM, but I think the HC needs a lot of deference as to his staff. I don't want the GM overly micromanaging coaching staff unless it's egregious. Was it egregious after last year? I could see arguments either way, the offense was fine 2019-20, but the injuries probably mostly give Roman a pass for last year.

 

Saunders on the other hand was egregious, that's a total organizational failure from top down IMO.

I think having a QB of Lamar's caliber, and sticking with an OC who can't incorporate modern passing concepts into the system is egregious. In fairness, I wasn't saying so this past offseason, but I'm not the GM. 

 

But this is a reasonable viewpoint. I actually can understand chasing after 2019-2020 this past offseason, it wasn't that long ago that this system had the organization on the brink. So yeah, I'll have to agree with you and with Biggsy about the hindsight piece, to a degree.

[Biggsy]

It shouldn't have been. It's 2023.

Also, I don't give a rats ass about frosted flake brands - it's pretty comical how you can't even get away with a small EDC criticism while praising him in the same post. That's fun.

It's an analogy. I'm fine with criticizing anyone when it makes logical sense to criticize them. In this situation, it's just illogical, and irrational.

[Mackus]

And realistically, what should he have done instead? Using all hindsight you want. Who could he have brought in that would have moved the needle, without creating a massive hole somewhere else ?

 

In what scope?  What could be done differently wihtout changing any of the other moves?  Really not much.  What could've been done differently with changing any other moves?  Almost endless possibilities.  A big one would've been AJ Brown, but that would've had lots of ripples and prevented other moves.  Many other much smaller moves also possible.  DeCosta decided to do nothing and invest his resources elsewhere, which if Bateman or Duvernay took a major stride forward could've worked.  But neither did, so it didn't.

 

Very similar decision made at DE/OLB and it worked just fine.  Its not indefensible as a decision, but it was certainly questionable and it certainly hurt the team.  

[TwentyThirtyFive]

It shouldn't have been. It's 2023.

Also, it's pretty comical how you can't even get away with a small EDC criticism while praising him in the same post. That's fun.

If they overhaul the offense as I expect then yes WR has to be one of the biggest needs we will have

[You Play to Win the Game]

It's an analogy. I'm fine with criticizing anyone when it makes logical sense to criticize them. In this situation, it's just illogical, and irrational.

No it isn't. It clearly isn't.

 

He was calculated in his decision making here. He had his reasons. He likely weighed it out - status quo and pray Bateman stays healthy and is legit - vs. shaking things up, getting more WR help, and in fairness to you, yes, deplete elsewhere. Maybe you can't get Jefferson, for example. Either way though, it isn't irrational or illogical to say that this calculation backfired. It didn't work out. That's just the way the game works at that level.

[Biggsy]

In what scope? What could be done differently wihtout changing any of the other moves? Really not much. What could've been done differently with changing any other moves? Almost endless possibilities. A big one would've been AJ Brown, but that would've had lots of ripples. Many other much smaller moves also possible. DeCosta decided to do nothing, which if Bateman or Duvernay took a major stride forward could've worked. But neither did, so it didn't.

You trade for AJ Brown, you give up 14 plus some. You Then sign him to a massive deal that had cap implications. You still trade for pick 25. So you still get Linderbaum. But you don't draft Hamilton. You can't sign Williams. Your secondary is who? Peters, Humphrey, Clark, Stone and Stephens ? Can we afford Moses at that point ?

Ok. You have your WR. But now we go into the season with a below average secondary, in a passing league. Now everyone is criticizing EDC for ignoring the secondary.

[Mackus]

You trade for AJ Brown, you give up 14 plus some. You Then sign him to a massive deal that had cap implications. You still trade for pick 25. So you still get Linderbaum. But you don't draft Hamilton. You can't sign Williams. Your secondary is who? Peters, Humphrey, Clark, Stone and Stephens ? Can we afford Moses at that point ?

Ok. You have your WR. But now we go into the season with a below average secondary, in a passing league. Now everyone is criticizing EDC for ignoring the secondary.

 

I didn't say I'd have chosen any one of the examples, just that plenty of other paths existed, all of them would've cost something.  There were countless options, including the one DeCosta chose.  He accepted the risk of having a thin, unproven WR room.  That risk burnt the team.  

[Biggsy]

No it isn't. It clearly isn't.

He was calculated in his decision making here. He had his reasons. He likely weighed it out - status quo and pray Bateman stays healthy and is legit - vs. shaking things up, getting more WR help, and in fairness to you, yes, deplete elsewhere. Maybe you can't get Jefferson, for example. Either way though, it isn't irrational or illogical to say that this calculation backfired. It didn't work out. That's just the way the game works at that level.

So what's the point of the criticism? If we all agree he made the right moves. And we all agree he was hamstrung by a tight cap number. What's the point ?

[Biggsy]

I didn't say I'd have chosen any one of the examples, just that plenty of other paths existed, all of them would've cost something. There were countless options, including the one DeCosta chose. He accepted the risk of having a thin, unproven WR room. That risk burnt the team.

Did it burn the team though? Or did an injured QB and a terrible OC burn the team?

[You Play to Win the Game]

So what's the point of the criticism? If we all agree he made the right moves. And we all agree he was hamstrung by a tight cap number. What's the point ?

Pointing out that this particular decision/strategy didn’t work out?

[bmore_ken]

I didn't say I'd have chosen any one of the examples, just that plenty of other paths existed, all of them would've cost something.  There were countless options, including the one DeCosta chose.  He accepted the risk of having a thin, unproven WR room.  That risk burnt the team.  

Not really. Roman burned the team for about the 4th year in a row.. Why you guys give him a pass I'll never understand, As I keep saying, you can win  without all pro receivers if you utilize a strong run game and TOP which was  and is the strength of this team

[Biggsy]

Does anyone here actually believe that anything would have been better with AJ Brown out wide, in a Roman led offense?