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CBS Sports: Pablo López trade options: Three partners for the Marlins' suddenly overstocked rotation


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#1 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 09:57 AM

CBS Sports: Pablo López trade options: Three partners for the Marlins' suddenly overstocked rotation

https://www.cbssport...ocked-rotation/

 

Orioles not mentioned... but you can see the suggested offers from the Twins, Brewers, and Royals.



#2 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 10:09 AM

Orioles not being mentioned is a good thing. If they are legitimately interested, there won't be leaks about it, at least based off past transactions. 

 

Still a good target. Not sold on the cost though.


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#3 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 11:59 AM

Weird article. The writer mentions the Marlins as needing a trade since they added Cueto when they already have 5 starters.

 

Then in the next section under the Brewers he says they also have 5 starters but "never a bad thing to add another starter"

 

So which is it? I get the rest of the teams makeup give them different needs but still......



#4 Mackus

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 12:06 PM

Mateo makes a lot of sense for Miami, they had garbage production at SS last year and just traded Rojas away anyways.  Mateo is a younger, slightly better version of Rojas.  Should've done that while signing Correa, but could still go with Urias and Henderson on the left side and Westburg at 2B with Frazier available if he struggles.

 

Stowers also fits the criteria of a young controllable outfielder that Miami is looking for.  Don't think he's enough, but could get you part way there.  

 

Cowser would be the top prospect I dangle for Lopez and probably wouldn't actually include him.  Lopez is a solid mid-rotation guy but nothing really indicates he's got #2 upside.  Guess he was that in 2021, but only 100 innings due to injury.  I don't think it should have to take a top-50 caliber guy to land him.  



#5 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 12:21 PM

Weird article. The writer mentions the Marlins as needing a trade since they added Cueto when they already have 5 starters.

 

Then in the next section under the Brewers he says they also have 5 starters but "never a bad thing to add another starter"

 

So which is it? I get the rest of the teams makeup give them different needs but still......

 

Welcome to the, "free agency is over but I still gotta write stuff" phase of the offseason.


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#6 Mike B

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 04:44 PM

It sounds like the Twins have talked to the Marlins.

 

https://www.thescore...lb/news/2544289

 

The Marlins are looking for offense, which I do not think we have to give.  We struggled to score runs last year, and subtracting someone like Mullins would leave us in a bad spot.


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#7 BobPhelan

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 05:42 PM

It wouldn’t take Mullins. Maybe Hays/Urias/Mateo and Westburg plus a low level prospect or two.

Don’t love Lopez tho, would rather have a few of their other guys over him not including Alcantara.
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#8 dude

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 11:32 PM

Still don't think any of the reasonably available Marlins move the needle for the Orioles.

 

The Twins could certainly use arm an arm for the rotation.  They could corner the market on Lopezs with Jorge in the pen.

 

Former top prospect (injury now) Royce Lewis would seem like an easy trade candidate with Correa signed.  Kepler has been on the move so a package that starts with those 2 and some minor pieces would seem reasonable.

 

The Brewers have the CF chip to trade, but unless they are moving a starter in another move, that doesn't make sense for them.  Doing something like this would have made more sense earlier in the off-season when they can manage other parts of their 26-man in better ways.



#9 dude

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 11:36 PM

Boston still needs help too.



#10 Mike B

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 09:20 AM

It wouldn’t take Mullins. Maybe Hays/Urias/Mateo and Westburg plus a low level prospect or two.

Don’t love Lopez tho, would rather have a few of their other guys over him not including Alcantara.

Even that seems high to me. I have expected to see a trade, but the closer we get to ST, the more likely I think it is that we go with what we have.  The season IMO, rests on Kremer, GRod and Bradish and the BP being able to do what they did last year.  


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#11 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 09:32 AM

Even that seems high to me. I have expected to see a trade, but the closer we get to ST, the more likely I think it is that we go with what we have.  The season IMO, rests on Kremer, GRod and Bradish and the BP being able to do what they did last year.  

True but the problem toward the end of the season last year was our pitiful offense.



#12 dude

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 11:06 AM

True but the problem toward the end of the season last year was our pitiful offense.

 

I think the offense is going to be pretty good this year.  There really weren't many reasonable ways to improve the floor or ceiling of the offense this offseason.  Sure, if we can convince Trea Turner to play 2B that would be amazing but he has to want to be here and he wanted to be somewhere else (although not too far away).  The Orioles had above average players at every position but SS and 2B and we accept SS because of the other things Mateo does well.  I like Frazier, and if they can fix him, great, but I think some other players could help more offensively there.

 

I think it's actually hard to improve the ceiling on the pitching staff, if you believe the gains we saw with Bradish, Kremer nad Wells are real.  They certainly have worse floors that last year so if (like MikeB just said above) they don't keep a reasonable pace, that's an issue.  But that's where a guy like Woodruff improves the floor.

 

As it relates to this thread, I don't really think a guy like Pablo Lopez improves the ceiling or the floor from what we have.  He hasn't pitched a lot of innings and he's had shoulder problems in the past.  If I could put PLopez or TWells in the rotation, I'd put TWells in it and I'm already putting TWells in the bullpen.

 

Again, if you want my B+ offseason....we should have traded for Brandon Woodruff early....maybe you include a team like Miami in the deal so the Brewers swap out Woodruff for Lopez and then fix some of their other issues in a better way...we get a guy like Manaea to bridge back to Means, GRod at #3 and you have Bradish/Kremer/Voth/ Wells at 4/5.

 

Maybe you can still do something, but it feels late in the offseason to be doing it, not so much from the Orioles standpoint, but from where other teams are focused today. 



#13 Mackus

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 11:22 AM

Seems ludicrous to me that you'd bet on Tyler Wells over Pablo Lopez for 2023.  Completely disagree that Lopez doesn't improve the floor or ceiling of the rotation.  I think he's way more likely to be a good pitcher than anyone actually on the team, including Rodriguez and Means.  Having one of the rotation spots set with a likely-to-be-good option makes it a lot more likely that the team as a whole gets closer to 162 good SP options than without him.  There will still be some emergency starts from awful candidates, but way fewer if we've got Lopez on the roster and able to make 30 starts if he remains healthy.

 

Whether he's enough of an upgrade to be worth the price will come down to knowing the price.  There are some packages I could propose that I'd do and others that I wouldn't.  But I am utterly baffled at any argument that says he's not an upgrade even if he were free.  That's absurd.



#14 dude

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 11:42 AM

Whether he's enough of an upgrade to be worth the price will come down to knowing the price.  There are some packages I could propose that I'd do and others that I wouldn't.  But I am utterly baffled at any argument that says he's not an upgrade even if he were free.  That's absurd.

 

You seem to believe that his 2022 season represents his floor.  Not sure why his 2019 season doesn't represent his floor.

 

Bradish and Kremer were much better than Lopez in the second half last year. GRod would be 100% ahead of him in my rotation. Voth was better than him as a starter last year.

 

I'm not saying he couldn't be a decent target if you needed a guy (like in MIN or BOS rotations) and if the Orioles get him, I hope he's great, but I'm not pining for a guy with a career OPS+ of 106 who's only thrown more than 112 innings once and was bad in the second half last year.



#15 Mackus

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 11:45 AM

If you're selling that Austin Voth is a better rotation option in 2023 than Pablo Lopez then I think we can stop talking.


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#16 dude

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 11:59 AM

If you're selling that Austin Voth is a better rotation option in 2023 than Pablo Lopez then I think we can stop talking.

 

Voth out-performed Lopez as a starter last year.  Voth's only purpose for me is to not-suck until I get to where I need IL Hall to be.

 

There seems to be a Legend of Pablo Lopez that isn't backed up by what he's actually done....and there's nothing wrong with what he's done, but he's not (at least he hasn't been) some hammer.



#17 Mackus

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 12:04 PM

No, not an ace, but he's a mid-rotation guy and been that rather consistently. He's far more likely to be effective this season than anyone else we have. Plug him in, combined with the others, and it gets a lot easier to get through the season.

Cost may not be worth the performance, but you're moving past that and outright saying that you think he's no better or safer a bet than Voth or Wells. And that's absurd. Those guys may be better, weird stuff happens, but Lopez is where the money goes.
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#18 BobPhelan

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 01:25 PM

Agree he’s a mid rotation guy and more established. There are injury concerns and he seems to be valued by the industry as a 2-3 starter when I see him more as a 3-4 which is why I would prefer to look elsewhere, even within the same organization.
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#19 Mackus

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 01:44 PM

$5.45M for Lopez in 2023, btw.






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