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RSR: Irreconcilable Differences?


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#1 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 06 January 2023 - 09:46 AM

RSR: Irreconcilable Differences?

https://russellstree...and-his-future/



#2 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 06 January 2023 - 09:59 AM

Clickbait headline, but nothing there really.

#3 mdrunning

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Posted 06 January 2023 - 10:44 AM

Like any bad marriage, there are probably three sides to the whole Lamar-Ravens story: his side, their side, and tucked somewhere in between, the truth.


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#4 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 06 January 2023 - 10:52 AM

I agree with his ultimate conclusion btw.

#5 NewMarketSean

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Posted 06 January 2023 - 02:30 PM

What has Lamar said since he came into the league? He wants to be respected as a passing QB. He doesn't wanna be a RB who plays QB. So I think the move away from the RPO offense that scored a ton of points in 2019 is as much on Lamar as it is on Roman. Lamar wants to pass the ball more. I don't blame him for wanting to do that because his speed will go away. Running means more chances to get injured. That said, if the Ravens were going to allow Lamar to become more of a passing QB, where the F are the weapons? Why did Brown want out if he knew the Ravens were trying to shift into a passing Lamar?

 

Something stinks here. I think blame (for lack of a better word) can be spread around like others have said. Lamar, Roman, Harbaugh, DeCosta, the WRs...no one has really made a case for themselves worthy of praise.

 

So I think LJ is going to want out. I think it's a possibility he sits out next year if he doesnt get a long-term deal. I think he'd have to take less from the Ravens than what he was offered last offseason, and I doubt he would agree to that.

 

So I think it's a good chance we've possibly already witnessed Lamar's last game as a Raven.


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#6 ivanbalt

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Posted 06 January 2023 - 02:58 PM

I wonder if things would be better if Lamar had an agent?



#7 mdrunning

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Posted 06 January 2023 - 04:19 PM

I wonder if things would be better if Lamar had an agent?

Absolutely, and not just in terms of negotiations with the Ravens. An agent can help a player understand the risks both of taking a deal and not taking one. An agent could also advise on the alternative paths should he and the Ravens reach a point of no return. 



#8 Mackus

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Posted 06 January 2023 - 04:35 PM

I'm quite confident that Lamar understands everything that we understand.  Its not complicated.  He's not stupid.  Being willing to take on risk isn't necessarily dumb, its just risky.



#9 CantonJester

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Posted 06 January 2023 - 04:41 PM

I'm quite confident that Lamar understands everything that we understand.  Its not complicated.  He's not stupid.  Being willing to take on risk isn't necessarily dumb, its just risky.

 

I don't think he does, not in the way most people do. He's taking on unnecessary risks. Huge red flag right there. 



#10 jamesdean

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Posted 06 January 2023 - 04:41 PM

When Lamar burst on to the scene, the one thing people talked about more than anything was how long could he sustain the style of play he's now famous for?  For the first three years, it looked like he was bullet proof, that he was almost superhuman, impervious to injuries and missing games.  He got sick a few times but never lost time because someone took him out on the field.  If we were still talking about that Lamar, then yeah, he'd have every right to expect Watson money because he was better than him.  That's not the case anymore. Not about Watson per se but he has proven that he's not invincible, that he can get injured and miss significant time.  And while the injuries have begun to mount, he's also shown a very mediocre passing game with declining accuracy on certain throws.  You can defend him and say he doesn't have any talent to throw to but for me, that's a lame excuse.  I can assure you a great passing quarterback would find a way to utilize what he had at his disposal and make those players better than they are or should be.  The question remains...do you pay an average passing quarterback with the peak years as a runner behind him the kind of money that will have potentially devastating impacts on the overall roster going forward?  A quarterback that now gets hurt and misses a good chunk of the schedule?  Some on here would say, yes, you give him that money because the potential alternative is worse while others have stated they'd rather trade him.  As much as I love what Lamar has done for this team, I'm officially in that second camp and if I'm Bisciotti, then to me, we have reached irreconcilable differences.  It's just not worth it anymore. 


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#11 bmore_ken

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Posted 07 January 2023 - 10:20 AM

. So I think the move away from the RPO offense that scored a ton of points in 2019 is as much on Lamar as it is on Roma

Wrong. Lamar doesn't call the plays. If an OC is letting a qb on a rookie contract call the shots, he needs to be fired.



#12 bmore_ken

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Posted 07 January 2023 - 10:22 AM

When Lamar burst on to the scene, the one thing people talked about more than anything was how long could he sustain the style of play he's now famous for?  For the first three years, it looked like he was bullet proof, that he was almost superhuman, impervious to injuries and missing games.  He got sick a few times but never lost time because someone took him out on the field.  If we were still talking about that Lamar, then yeah, he'd have every right to expect Watson money because he was better than him.  That's not the case anymore. Not about Watson per se but he has proven that he's not invincible, that he can get injured and miss significant time.  And while the injuries have begun to mount, he's also shown a very mediocre passing game with declining accuracy on certain throws.  You can defend him and say he doesn't have any talent to throw to but for me, that's a lame excuse.  I can assure you a great passing quarterback would find a way to utilize what he had at his disposal and make those players better than they are or should be.  The question remains...do you pay an average passing quarterback with the peak years as a runner behind him the kind of money that will have potentially devastating impacts on the overall roster going forward?  A quarterback that now gets hurt and misses a good chunk of the schedule?  Some on here would say, yes, you give him that money because the potential alternative is worse while others have stated they'd rather trade him.  As much as I love what Lamar has done for this team, I'm officially in that second camp and if I'm Bisciotti, then to me, we have reached irreconcilable differences.  It's just not worth it anymore. 

The hole in your theory is Lamar hasn't been injured running the ball.


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#13 bmore_ken

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Posted 07 January 2023 - 10:23 AM

I wonder if things would be better if Lamar had an agent?

 

 

Absolutely, and not just in terms of negotiations with the Ravens. An agent can help a player understand the risks both of taking a deal and not taking one. An agent could also advise on the alternative paths should he and the Ravens reach a point of no return. 

I personally think if he had an agent, he'd already be signed. 


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#14 jamesdean

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Posted 07 January 2023 - 10:52 AM

The hole in your theory is Lamar hasn't been injured running the ball.

I can see where you would think I was alluding to that but I was just saying injuries in general, regardless of how it happened. 



#15 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 07 January 2023 - 11:11 AM


Wrong. Lamar doesn't call the plays. If an OC is letting a qb on a rookie contract call the shots, he needs to be fired.

So Andy Reid, Sean McDermott and Zach Taylor and their OC’s should all be fired?

#16 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 07 January 2023 - 11:31 AM

The hole in your theory is Lamar hasn't been injured running the ball.

This may be a little bit too much of a reach but bear with me...perhaps because of the stress and strain Lamar puts on his body through running the ball leaves him vulnerable to injury. Whether he gets hurt in the pocket/dropping back vs getting hurt while carrying the ball doesn't really matter. Jackson probably gets hit, on average, 15 or so times more than a typical pocket passer and those hits must take a toll.

If you look at the hit that has Lamar on the shelf, it looks completely innocuous. But when you realize just how much mileage Jackson has put on his body by taking "normal" QB hits through passing, energy expended running the ball 10-15 times a game, plus any hits he may absorb in the open field, his body is going through it.

Think about how many RBs simply fall off the map at age 30. Jackson isn't carrying the ball 250-300 times a year but he has logged 727 carries so far and if you combine that mileage and hits with QB hits and sacks, it's quite a beating.

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#17 jamesdean

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Posted 07 January 2023 - 11:47 AM

This may be a little bit too much of a reach but bear with me...perhaps because of the stress and strain Lamar puts on his body through running the ball leaves him vulnerable to injury. Whether he gets hurt in the pocket/dropping back vs getting hurt while carrying the ball doesn't really matter. Jackson probably gets hit, on average, 15 or so times more than a typical pocket passer and those hits must take a toll.

If you look at the hit that has Lamar on the shelf, it looks completely innocuous. But when you realize just how much mileage Jackson has put on his body by taking "normal" QB hits through passing, energy expended running the ball 10-15 times a game, plus any hits he may absorb in the open field, his body is going through it.

Think about how many RBs simply fall off the map at age 30. Jackson isn't carrying the ball 250-300 times a year but he has logged 727 carries so far and if you combine that mileage and hits with QB hits and sacks, it's quite a beating.

I think that's a fair assessment. 



#18 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 07 January 2023 - 11:54 AM

I think that's a fair assessment.


It's funny that I never really thought of it in that manner until just now. But looking at it through that lense, now think back to what Steve Young and Steve McNair looked like at the end of their respective careers; and neither of them carried the ball at the rate that Jackson does.

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#19 Mackus

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Posted 07 January 2023 - 12:06 PM


It's funny that I never really thought of it in that manner until just now. But looking at it through that lense, now think back to what Steve Young and Steve McNair looked like at the end of their respective careers; and neither of them carried the ball at the rate that Jackson does.

Lamar is 25 years old. How old were Young and McNair when you thought them dilapidated? I bet it wasn't 29 or 30.

#20 makoman

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Posted 07 January 2023 - 12:24 PM

Lamar is 25 years old. How old were Young and McNair when you thought them dilapidated? I bet it was 29 or 30.


Steve Young was a 2nd team all pro at 37 and did almost everything significant in his career in his 30s.
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