144 replies to this topic

[mdrunning]

Have the Brewers been actively shopping Burnes? I haven't seen anything to suggest as much.

 

Without one of the Orioles' top three guys (G-Rod, Gunnar, or Holliday) being offered, I doubt if the Brewers even consider this proposed trade. Cowser makes little sense for them since they already have three or four outfield guys who are close to MLB ready.

[Mackus]

Have the Brewers been actively shopping Burnes? I haven't seen anything to suggest as much.

Without one of the Orioles' top three guys (G-Rod, Gunnar, or Holliday) being offered, I doubt if the Brewers even consider this proposed trade. Cowser makes little sense for them since they already have three or four outfield guys who are close to MLB ready.

Nope. There were rumors or predictions that they'd shop him or Woodruff.

Then there were either reports or maybe rumors that they decided not to move them.

It's a reasonable enough possibility to discuss a trade matchup, but not so likely that I think we can say the O's have missed the boat if they are not dealt anywhere.

[dude]

Orioles get: RHP Corbin Burnes

Brewers get: OF Colton Cowser (Orioles' No. 4 prospect), INF Jordan Westburg (No. 5), LHP Cade Povich (No. 14), RHP Kyle Bradish

 

Personally, I don't really like this deal for either side.  I discussed this in the Brewers trade thoughts.

 

Burnes (and Bieber) are 2 guys on the market salivating for their FA opportunity 2 years from now.  Of note, the Mets will be transitioning off 2 good pitchers and freeing up 86M in payroll between those 2.  Pretty easy to transition that salary into 2 guys like Burnes/Bieber. 

 

I'm not sure why the Brewers want an OF prospect as the top asset.  He isn't different than the guys they have that also need to get into the lineup.  Their whole infield could use a makeover, so they have to decide on the players they want.  They've already moved assets to get guys like Toro and other so maybe that's a 2024 thing, but it seems like the guys they would be adding don't do much outside of some hacks trying to assess 'prospect value'. 

 

They jumped in on a 3-way with ATL and OAK to land Contreras' brother, Contreras, but imo, Sean Murphy would have been the better win now play.

 

If they aren't signing either Woodruff or Burnes, keep Burnes and trade Woodruff.

 

I'd rather make the play for Woodruff and think he'd be the more likely guy to extend in Baltimore (age, expectations)

 

So something like Woodruff for Kremer, Westburg and Murphy would have seemed to be a better deal for them than the things they've been doing (now and later)...and a more relevant deal than what AC is suggesting.

 

Of course, it's likely too late for this stuff now, Brewers have already been locking in other moves to finalize their roster/needs.  We're probably not revisiting this until July unless the Brewers fall off the map early and look to make some changes.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

How would Bassitt not be a prudent move? No long term commitment and well within payroll limits for the duration of the contract.

I'll hear that Rodon or maybe even Senga carries too much risk for their 5+ year deals. But not Bassitt for 3. Very weak for the O's to not have beaten Toronto's offer for him by quite a bit annually. Verlander was the ideal target given the short contract, it Bassitt is a poor man's version of that. Should've aggressively pursued both but certainly should've done enough to land one of them.

And he absolutely improves the chances of making the playoffs in 2023. That doesn't mean they would make it with him or won't without him or that he'd have a good year, just that those are the reasonable expectations.

How much are you overspending to get him to Baltimore. I said who cares go sign him whatever it takes. But I agree with your overall point here. Have said numerous times Verlander was the ideal target. Bassitt wouldnt have been my 2nd target but he would have been in play and I would have beaten TOr offer. Still cant force him to sign. You guys think Im using that as a crutch but as I said in the other thread I agree with Phelan. I tihnk we were selectively aggressive and struck out a few times. One of them may have been Bassitt, 

[You Play to Win the Game]

Youre too thin skinned here. You are taking shit I say personally and Im not even coming at you. THats been the source of all this back and forth between us of late. YOu are taking what I say too personally.

You’re probably right. Genuine apology for that.

The lack of care and competitiveness from this FO just truly makes me sick. I shouldn’t be projecting that angst onto you if that’s what’s going on here. I’ll take a deeper look.

[You Play to Win the Game]

They never tried to sign Bassitt. If they were going to, there certainly wouldn’t have been a headline a week before the Winter Meetings that said “Orioles are the favorites to sign Bassitt”. Because things like that don’t get leaked about players Elias actually goes after and gets. It’s just a lot of cognitive dissonance at this point using “I’m sure they’ve struck out” as any kind of excuse for not doing more.

And yeah I’m not buying “measured approach”. If I had to visualize it I’d draw a marker at a quarter inch line on a ruler, and another one literally right past it. If you zoom in far enough, there’s a tiny gap between the two lines, and that’s where you’ll find the Orioles measured approach. They haven’t done jack.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

You’re probably right. Genuine apology for that.

The lack of care and competitiveness from this FO just truly makes me sick. I shouldn’t be projecting that angst onto you if that’s what’s going on here. I’ll take a deeper look.

As I said the other day Im frustrated too. I also know my style and tone can rub people the wrong way. I get why you could be offended  but yeah IM not coming at you personally. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

They never tried to sign Bassitt. If they were going to, there certainly wouldn’t have been a headline a week before the Winter Meetings that said “Orioles are the favorites to sign Bassitt”. Because things like that don’t get leaked about players Elias actually goes after and gets. It’s just a lot of cognitive dissonance at this point using “I’m sure they’ve struck out” as any kind of excuse for not doing more.

And yeah I’m not buying “measured approach”. If I had to visualize it I’d draw a marker at a quarter inch line on a ruler, and another one literally right past it. If you zoom in far enough, there’s a tiny gap between the two lines, and that’s where you’ll find the Orioles measured approach. They haven’t done jack.

As I said in the other thread, Im not asking for "brownie points" or credit for trying. THat doesnt mean it might be a reality. I do think,generally speaking, its not particularly easy to get desired FAs to come to Baltimore.

[BSLRoseKatz]

Have the Brewers been actively shopping Burnes? I haven't seen anything to suggest as much.

 

Without one of the Orioles' top three guys (G-Rod, Gunnar, or Holliday) being offered, I doubt if the Brewers even consider this proposed trade. Cowser makes little sense for them since they already have three or four outfield guys who are close to MLB ready.

Not at the moment but the assumption is a small market team like them has very little chance to keep him as an ace that'll want a very nice contract once he hits free agency so I think we can reasonably assume he won't spend his final two years of control entirely as a Brewer

[mweb08]

What I am saying is many of you just want to do something to do something.

You're upset at Ricker and others for twisting your words or making up things, right? Well what you write here is that to the highest order. No one wants them to do something to do something. There's no way to honestly come to the conclusion man.

[mdrunning]

I'd look into Pablo Lopez of the Fish. Miami needs hitting prospects and he isn't likely to command as high of a trade price overall as would Burnes.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

You're upset at Ricker and others for twisting your words or making up things, right? Well what you write here is that to the highest order. No one wants them to do something to do something. There's no way to honestly come to the conclusion man.

It was a general statement but I disagree. I think many people would be happy to just do something with a name they think they are supposed to like. 

[mweb08]

It was a general statement but I disagree. I think many people would be happy to just do something with a name they think they are supposed to like.

Ok, who? Based on what?

This is just an epic level of twisting people's words from a guy that can't stand when people twist his words.

[Mackus]

If we wanted them to do something just to do something we'd be happy with Gibson or Frazier. That's closer to doing something just to do it. Paying top dollar or more for guys that don't really improve much besides depth.

There are a handful or more of legit good guys that signed for deals that could be beaten and still be shy of being irresponsible. Verlander, Rodon, Senga, Bassitt, and Abreu are the ones that bother me the most. The shortstops all got more than I'd be comfortable with. The other mid-tier SP mostly exceeded my upper bounds as well and I don't fret missing on them too much.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Ok, who? Based on what?

This is just an epic level of twisting people's words from a guy that can't stand when people twist his words.

Rodon at 7/210. I think a lot of people would have liked that deal. Its a big name. Its a clear overpay and IMO a very bad contract. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

If we wanted them to do something just to do something we'd be happy with Gibson or Frazier. That's closer to doing something just to do it. Paying top dollar or more for guys that don't really improve much besides depth.

There are a handful or more of legit good guys that signed for deals that could be beaten and still be shy of being irresponsible. Verlander, Rodon, Senga, Bassitt, and Abreu are the ones that bother me the most. The shortstops all got more than I'd be comfortable with. The other mid-tier SP mostly exceeded my upper bounds as well and I don't fret missing on them too much.

Doing something big just to do something big.   I should have explained my thought prcess more there.

[mweb08]

ROdon at 7/210. I think a lot of people would have liked that deal. Its a big name. Its a clear overpay and IMO a very bad contract. 

 

So you think it's an overpay therefore the people that would have liked it just want the O's to do something to do something? Wow, that's some twisted logic there man.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Winning at being a GM doesn’t require always doing the most logical, low-risk thing you can do at every turn. Sometimes you have to take some risks. The guy is completely risk adverse. It’s ridiculous at that level. No risk, no reward.

[Mackus]

6/$180M would've been my max for Rodon. Or a close equivalent NPV on a lower AAV 7-year deal. Not sure what that maths out to off hand.

He got 6/$162M and it seemed like it took him awhile to find that. I don't think NYY match 6/$180M though of course they could.

[mweb08]

6/$180M would've been my max for Rodon. Or a close equivalent NPV on a lower AAV 7-year deal. Not sure what that maths out to off hand.

He got 6/$162M and it seemed like it took him awhile to find that. I don't think NYY match 6/$180M though of course they could.

 

Mackus, a typical just wanting the team to do something to do something type of guy.