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MASN: A handful of Orioles questions that remain unanswered


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#21 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 17 December 2022 - 05:29 PM

Every team in baseball can say they have no "holes". Its a matter of how deep you have to dig to have a piece in play. So you could say that the O's don't have a hole at catcher.

 

I do not for a minute think that our rotation nor starting lineup don't have a hole. Do we have players to fill every spot? Sure. But not all those guys are players I expect to be good enough to make this a playoff team, especially in SP. 



#22 bmore_ken

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Posted 17 December 2022 - 05:32 PM

Every team in baseball can say they have no "holes". Its a matter of how deep you have to dig to have a piece in play. So you could say that the O's don't have a hole at catcher.

 

I do not for a minute think that our rotation nor starting lineup don't have a hole. Do we have players to fill every spot? Sure. But not all those guys are players I expect to be good enough to make this a playoff team, especially in SP

Exactly my point. 



#23 dude

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Posted 18 December 2022 - 02:18 PM

Every team in baseball can say they have no "holes". Its a matter of how deep you have to dig to have a piece in play. So you could say that the O's don't have a hole at catcher.

 

I'm not sure why we have to do this this way.

 

The only unanswered question for the 2023 Orioles is the backup catcher.  It's not unimportant for a number of reasons.  What you're saying here is that because "Austin Hays (whoever)" has taken a couple of reps with the equipment on and in a dire situation could take a knee behind the plate, that, therefore, is not a hole.

 

That seems completely unreasonable.

 

The Orioles will have a #2 catcher this season.  That guy isn't on the 40-man yet and the 40-man has 40-men on it. I've discussed many options in the 2023 Catching thread.  Other have shared options.  The options today are fewer than they were 2 months ago.  My preferred option is out there.  Anthony Bemboom may be the backup catcher, but he can't be that guy until they put him on the 40-man.  You can wait for a spot to open through injury or whatever and then add him before the first game of the year....but that is the one part of the 2023 roster that is (literally) a hole.

 

The backup catcher might not be the most impactful or important question, but it is clearly the only question that sits there (today) as "unanswered".



#24 BaltBird 24

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Posted 18 December 2022 - 02:38 PM

I'd argue that backup C is the most important back up position on the team. We want to rest Adley as often as possible behind the late to keep his bat in the lineup. Ideally the backup C will be starting 35-40 times.

#25 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 18 December 2022 - 03:17 PM

I'd argue that backup C is the most important back up position on the team. We want to rest Adley as often as possible behind the late to keep his bat in the lineup. Ideally the backup C will be starting 35-40 times.

 

Might agree with this. Perhaps I am wrong but I just see a quality starter or everyday hitter to have more potential impact than the backup catcher.


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#26 Mackus

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Posted 18 December 2022 - 08:37 PM

Might agree with this. Perhaps I am wrong but I just see a quality starter or everyday hitter to have more potential impact than the backup catcher.

I think you're just interpreting this differently than what everyone else is actually meaning. Nobody thinks the backup catcher is more important or more impactful than a solid bat for the lineup or a #2 SP. It's just that it is important. We're saying it's an important role to target during the off-season.

And in the off-season, sequence doesn't equate to importance. They don't stop looking for a SP because they are focusing on a catcher. It's all simultaneous.

#27 dude

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Posted 19 December 2022 - 03:17 PM

So you like Elias expect that all those players will repeat  last year's numbers and Grod coming off surgery will be a beast. Good luck with that. 

 

Chris answered this a little, but let me add...

 

You have to make choices.  You'll likely be wrong as much as you're right, but you don't know.  Throwing money at some of the guys in this market doesn't improve either your ceiling or floor....but everyone wants to throw money at something.

 

We want top prospects, but we have THE top prospect and he's ready and he doesn't get opportunity?  If you can't start Grayson Rodriguez....what young player could you ever start?  If we can't start young players...why do we care about MiL Talent?  IL Hall is in a similar, but lesser, boat right now.  Some people have suggested he's actually better and OPaCY is certainly better suited for anyone pitching with the wrong hand.

 

Kremer throws 21 starts of 3.23 ERA ball.  What does he need to do to keep opportunity?  He looked good, then looked horrible, now looks good.  Is his performance unsustainable?  I don't know.  If we wanted to trade out his floor (ie risk) with someone like Brandon Woodruff (that was my thought) then do that.  I wouldn't pay for Evoldi or Wacha or Tallion to push Kremer to AAA.  Not sure any of them are better (same risks) and what message does it send to everyone in your organization?  Your performance doesn't matter?

 

Bradish...same things. We saw struggles (even in the midst of an 8 inning gem in SEA), he got sent down (deservedly so) and came back nad pitched more like we expected for 13 starts.  Why can't we pitch him?

 

I don't trust deGrom or Rodon with any of my money.

 

I am not going to chase Verlander's career season after being off for 2 (really 3 if you include 2020 limitations) at 40+ years old.  He could convince me to pitch here, but it's not because I'm trying to bribe him with 50M.  He's from the north of Richmond, he probably needs 4 years to get to 300 wins (244 today)...there's a different approach if he wanted it.  But he has to want it.  If he doesn't, good luck.

 

My "A" rotation for 2023 would have been

 

Woodruff (trade with MIL, extend similar to Castillo)

Manaea (1+, bridge back to Means, extend Means)

GRod

Voth (bridge to Hall, inning limits)

Bradish

 

There's plenty of depth...Wells becomes a high-leverage swing-guy.  Watkins plus others at AAA.

 

No reason we couldn't have been in on guys like Manaea or Heaney.  Both would have been good for those 1-year opt type deals.  Bridge back to Means (remember when everyone was lamenting we didn't give him 150M?).



#28 dude

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Posted 22 December 2022 - 12:27 PM

The backup catcher might not be the most impactful or important question, but it is clearly the only question that sits there (today) as "unanswered".

 

...and just to complete this loop...

 

James McCann is now the answer to the only real unanswered question.  Done.  2024 too.

 

On to the more nebulous assessments!!  



#29 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 22 December 2022 - 01:41 PM

When James McCann is the answer to the only remaining unanswered question I am not a happy camper.....lol.

 

Not that McCann isn't a fine choice. Its the more important stuff that could have actually improved the team out of the starting gate.



#30 BobPhelan

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Posted 22 December 2022 - 01:44 PM

Still think a big trade for a SP is coming before spring training starts, fingers crossed.

#31 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 22 December 2022 - 02:05 PM

Still think a big trade for a SP is coming before spring training starts, fingers crossed.

Its interesting. I think the  Os are more likely to bring in a higher quality SP through trade but if they get Wacha or Kluber it makes them less likely to pull the trigger on a trade. Either way they are adding another SP.

 

 

I really hope they reach out to Dom SMith. I tihnk they need another bat. Not much left there in FA. Peralta, Belt and DOm SMith



#32 dude

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Posted 22 December 2022 - 02:26 PM

Still think a big trade for a SP is coming before spring training starts, fingers crossed.

 

The question remains, who qualifies as that?  We can walk through a number of different arms that are available, but who qualifies as a big trade?  

 

We could still probably work with the Brewers, but we'd likely need to take Yelich's contract at this point....ie do something a little extreme.

 

The Max Fried angle is interesting so there's room to work aggressively there if you wanted....do we want to?

 

Put the salary dumps together (plus other prospects/details) and the Orioles wind up with Woodruff, Fried and Yelich....sign me up.

 

If you think one of the Marlins pitchers this side of Alcantara moves the needle, I disagree.  Pablo Lopez second half ERA last year was almost 5.  I don't think he's an answer unless we know there's something to fix.  Then, ok, own it.

 

It's not just payroll capacity and prospects, you have to have a team that has (and more importantly willing to move) something that actually counts.  The fast moving FA market has reduced the latitude for teams to create follow-on options.

 

I don't want Snell.  I don't want Corbin unless we're using him for something better (too late).  MadBum is maybe interesting.  The other 29 teams are the pool of opportunity.  We know everyone's name, status, blah, blah.



#33 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 22 December 2022 - 02:28 PM

He just said none of  the Marlins pitchers outside of Alcantara moves the needle. Again Ill ask what you're on



#34 dude

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Posted 22 December 2022 - 02:37 PM

He just said none of  the Marlins pitchers outside of Alcantara moves the needle. Again Ill ask what you're on

 

Since we know all of the names, status and history of each Marlins pitcher, instead of being general, you could actually talk about the ones you think move the needle.



#35 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 22 December 2022 - 02:46 PM

Since we know all of the names, status and history of each Marlins pitcher, instead of being general, you could actually talk about the ones you think move the needle.

I know all of them and you are dead wrong. So bold to claim none of them move the needle like their CY Young award winner.  :roll:

 

 

 

BTW also hilarious you think they have any realistic shot at Fried either.  Of course they could put together a package to get it done but its not realistic nor is there any reason to believe the Braves in the middle of go ALL In mode are interested in trading him



#36 Mackus

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Posted 22 December 2022 - 03:04 PM

Yelich as a salary dump to geta pitcher is an interesting idea.  Do they just let Woodruff go to get out from Yelich?  Big problem with Yelich isn't his downturn at the plate over the past 3 years / 1400 PA but that his defense is so bad you probably have to DH him.

 

If he could play a solid LF, then you can take on his contract and you're not that far in the hole.  He's owed 6@$26M with a 107 OPS+ thepast 3 years.  Benintendi just got 5@$15M with a 106OPS+ the past few years.  But Benintendi is an average defender and three years younger.  If Yelich's anchor nets you a couple years control of a good SP,  I think it could be well worth it.  Plus the outside chance Yelich rediscovers the red-hot performance he had in his early Milwaukee days.

 

I think Yelich's defense kills the deal though.  If he's just a DH or really bad corner OF, then his contract goes from something like $10-12M a year in the hole (if he were a capable LF) to something like $20M+ a year in the hole.



#37 Mackus

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Posted 22 December 2022 - 03:08 PM

Lopez moves the needle.  Don't get an argument about how he doesn't.  He's not an ace or #2, and I don't think he has that upside, but he's been a very solid mid-rotation guy at an age where you expect that to continue.

 

Certainly I'd rather him have been the 2nd best guy we get and not the best.  But he's a substantially better bet to be good than Wacha or any of the other cheap guys.  I do see an argument for Eovaldi over a trade for Lopez given the expected prospect cost.



#38 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 22 December 2022 - 03:10 PM

Oh come on. You cant take on that Yelich contract. Nor should Mil be looking to attach it to Woodruff right now. Its not like its impossible for Yelich to raise his value back up a bit. They are still looking to win. Both of those guys for better or worse do that for them



#39 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 22 December 2022 - 03:15 PM

Lopez moves the needle.  Don't get an argument about how he doesn't.  He's not an ace or #2, and I don't think he has that upside, but he's been a very solid mid-rotation guy at an age where you expect that to continue.

 

Certainly I'd rather him have been the 2nd best guy we get and not the best.  But he's a substantially better bet to be good than Wacha or any of the other cheap guys.  I do see an argument for Eovaldi over a trade for Lopez given the expected prospect cost.

SO does Lazardo, Cabrera, Garrett, and Rogers. All said to potentially be available. Its literally one of the worst takes he has ever had. There is obviously a ranking of the 5 guys who may be available but all are young, cost controlled, have solid peripherals, and move the needle



#40 Slidemaster

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Posted 22 December 2022 - 03:19 PM

Elias answered the only question I had this offseason.

"Do they actually care about winning?"

"No."

And he has the Fing audacity to blame fan interest for why they can't be more active?

What a joke. I'm disgusted beyond disgusted. They FINALLY have a core worth building around and they're passing it away.




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