193 replies to this topic

[Mike in STL]

The only thing I can think of is Frazier is a LH bat, and the new dimensions last year don’t benefit Hays and Mountcastle, they already moved Mancini. Either of those two could be on the trade block with Frazier ready to take an OF spot.

Again, I feel like I’m giving Elias far too much benefit of the doubt. But if moves this off-season create a lineup of 9 LH hitters (and switch hitters) against righties at home, that’s creative, and playing to the home field advantage you’ve created.

[You Play to Win the Game]

[DuffMan]

This is such an underwhelming signing. Reminds me the early 2000's when we were signing guys like Marty Cordova or Jay Payton, they had a little name recognition but unfortunately they weren't any good

[Mackus]

8 million could've bought us two young blue chip lottery tickets from Latin America.

 

Not really.  The International Money is capped and (should be) an entirely different budget.  The draft and international pools should just be baseline 100% spent every year.  Can't really trade MLB salary for additional budget in those places (although you can trade for more international budget slots).

[dude]

Add me in the group that thinks this move is comically stupid.

 

This feels like the kind of thing you do when you're getting fired and you take a crap under your desk on the way out.

 

 

Why would you sign a guy that actually makes your team worse for 8M.  I say that as a guy that has argued for Frazier in the past....like Weber said earlier, you sign him to multi-years and create a little opportunity while you work on developing your depth or whatever.  If you think there's something there...sign him to a split contract for...heck...2.5M would be a lot.  Why would you ever commit a 26-man spot to a guy that just OPSd .612.  So someone else gets him.  Who cares, everyone in the queue to start is better than him in 2023.  He should be looking for bounce-back with the Nationals or A's.

 

This actually feels intentionally stupid, because no-one should think this makes sense.

[Mackus]

I don't understand why he costs $8M but I also don't care. It's irrelevant and won't prevent them from spending elsewhere (they may use it as an excuse, but that'll be dishonest).

I think there is a much better chance of Frazier being fine or even good than someone like Odor or Franco or other recent nearly free signings who'll be available as ST starts. So he makes more sense than those recent signings.

Still don't think it makes much sense though.

I think he eliminates Vavra from the roster, pushes Urias to the bench and Westburg and others to late season callups. I'll buy any argument that would've preferred those guys in those various roles to Frazier, regardless of cost. We still have them, so if they're better you can play them, but I'm pretty convinced that the big negative of Frazier's salary is that he'll get a very long rope even if others deserve the time.

Is he a LF option if Hays falls flat?

[Mackus]

If you gave me 100 guesses at guys they'd actually sign this year, Frazier wouldn't have been on my radar. Not sure Gibson would've either. Would love to be a fly on the wall in the planning meeting where someone threw their names into the hat. How does that conversation start and get to the point that we sign them?  And relatively early.  These guys are Plan A.  Baffling.

[You Play to Win the Game]

If you gave me 100 guesses at guys they'd actually sign this year, Frazier wouldn't have been on my radar. Not sure Gibson would've either. Would love to be a fly on the wall in the planning meeting where someone threw their names into the hat. How does that conversation start and get to the point that we sign them?

Context. It isn’t liftoff, it’s upward arc. This off-season has nothing to do with 2023. When viewed that way, can you envision it?

[You Play to Win the Game]

Now when Westburg or Ortiz or Norby are tearing it up and ready to play at the big league level everyday, they’ll have their clubhouse veteran leader Adam Frazier standing in the way. They’ll probably bring in a choreographer to help him come up with a celebration that fans love and everything. This is 2022 all over again. Because a GM doesn’t want to try.

[Mackus]

I'd have liked to add both guys to the 2019 or 2020 or 2021 or 2022 rosters.  They're the perfect guys to sign to try to take your team from godawful to just normal bad.  

 

We should be aiming for better than that at this point.

[You Play to Win the Game]

They’re marginally better, if that, than Odor and Lyles. Not like production is guaranteed at that tier of player at those ages. Nothing burger.

[Mackus]

Now when Westburg or Ortiz or Norby are tearing it up and ready to play at the big league level everyday, they’ll have their clubhouse veteran leader Adam Frazier standing in the way. They’ll probably bring in a choreographer to help him come up with a celebration that fans love and everything. This is 2022 all over again. Because a GM doesn’t want to try.

 

That's the only thing I hate about this signing.  If his salary prevents them from moving on to better options if his play or their play dictate it, then signing him has actually made you worse.

 

If he was a league minimum signing and all it meant was Vavra likely gets the boot, I wouldn't have much to say.  He'd be an intriguing option to add to the mix.  And the difference between $8M and $700k on for this team should not make any difference at all.  If they're willing to cut him if they need to give the spot to someone else, then that's fine.  I really doubt that will be the case and suspect that they'll stick with a struggling Frazier for far too long before turning to Westburg et al.

[dude]

I'd have liked to add both guys to the 2019 or 2020 or 2021 or 2022 rosters.  They're the perfect guys to sign to try to take your team from godawful to just normal bad.  

 

We should be aiming for better than that at this point.

 

This is 1 million percent the point.

 

Use your roster and money and opportunity to do things that makes sense.

 

Committing to Adam Frazier makes zero sense. 

 

Even if you like him and think he's a guy that can help....where was he when he was actually good?  Steve and I had this discussion in 2019 or 2020....I argued for adding Frazier (vs Alberto) because he has more offensive and defensive upside.  There's something there.  He's collapsed the last year plus.  He's 31 now.  You have better, younger players that need opportunity.

 

We can't do anything good....but we can give Frazier 8M?  WTH. Why?

[BSLRoseKatz]

Food for thought

[Mackus]

Is he an option for LF and then a fallback plan for 2B if we need to bench Mateo (sliding Henderson to SS and Urias to 3B)?  Even if Frazier bounces back from his awful 2022 he's not as good as Urias offensively and hard to argue for him defensively considering the Gold Glove Urias just won at 3B.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Food for thought

This food has brought me negative thoughts Jordan.

[mdrunning]

Pricey for a guy of this caliber, but then again, it shouldn't stop the Orioles from doing anything else they may pursue this offseason. And a one-year deal certainly isn't going to block some of the other prospects.

 

Frazier's an upgrade over Odor offensively and defensively, and maybe the Orioles feel they can get him back to where he was in 2021. It's not as if his best year is that far in the rear-view mirror. While this $8 million signing doesn't figure to rival Nellie back in 2014, at least it would make more sense strategically if Elias is planning on trading from the middle infield positions. I guess we'll have to see.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Is he an option for LF and then a fallback plan for 2B if we need to bench Mateo (sliding Henderson to SS and Urias to 3B)? Even if Frazier bounces back from his awful 2022 he's not as good as Urias offensively and hard to argue for him defensively considering the Gold Glove Urias just won at 3B.

I’m sure we’ll find out this and more at the Adam Frazier Signing Season Ticket Drive event tomorrow.

[BSLRoseKatz]

This food has brought me negative thoughts Jordan.

I believe Pavlov has studied this 

[BaltBird 24]

Signing Frazier is about the worst deal they could make considering it's arguably the deepest position in the organization. We literally have 4-6 guys who could step in and perform at that position with reasonable confidence.

I know the money doesn't really matter, and they still have plenty to do whatever, but I'd rather them had thrown that money towards one of the last remaining SP options.

Elias with an F so far this off-season.