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BSL: Lamar Jackson. Step Up, or Step Out.


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#21 bmore_ken

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Posted 27 November 2022 - 01:00 AM

All the stats and rankings are what they are. The most important stat to me is that the Ravens are 44-14 in regular season games that he's started and didn't leave early due to injury. That's a .759 winning percentage. They're 2-6 in games he didn't start/play or got hurt early and exited with no return. That's a .250 winning percentage. Off the top of my head... of the 14 full game losses, he led a go ahead drive late at Vegas but Wink and company couldn't hold the lead for 37 seconds, and they had the infamous 21 point 4th quarter lead vs Miami where McDonald summoned the ghost of Wink and his cover zero / single high to help give away an almost unlosable lead.

If a .759 winning percentage isn't elite / top 10 level... I dunno what is... and I'm hard pressed to think that the ginormous discrepancy is dumb luck.

4 postseason games he's 1-3. Small sample size and a mildly insane game plan his second playoff outing. He very likely would have had at least a 5th sample to consider last year if he hadn't gotten hurt.

I don't disagree with any of that. I'm just saying this one game doesn't define the season. I would hate to see him make an injury worse against a 3 win team and then we actually do have him miss three or four games. Which could knock them out of a home playoff game.



#22 cprenegade

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Posted 27 November 2022 - 02:07 AM

You know there is another view point on this.  Football is a business.  If the Ravens had signed Jackson to a huge 5-6 year extension, then a meeting of the minds is warranted.  You have to decide if tomorrow's risk is worth him playing and possibly getting hurt worse.  Right now, the Ravens do not have that high priced superstar locked up.  

 

Then it comes down to, do we want to sign him, can we sign him, or is he going to end up somewhere else for the rest of his career.  If either of the first two are no, then he plays unless he says otherwise.  I'm not into preserving his health for the next team.  I'm going full out trying to maximize what I can do this year.  If I already know that I am not going to agree to his terms, then I don't give a damn about playing him as long as he is medically cleared and agrees.  Go all in for this year.   



#23 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 27 November 2022 - 07:18 AM

If the NLFPA wants to see guaranteed contracts, at least for some players, they need to push for a soft cap at the next CBA negotiations. They should try to institute the superstar exemption like the NBA has, which would allow teams to retain a player by going over the cap. Even then, the contracts don't have to be guaranteed, per se but the players could get more money, which is the ultimate goal. Otherwise, I think this current fight is one they're going to lose.
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#24 Mackus

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Posted 27 November 2022 - 07:46 AM

If the NLFPA wants to see guaranteed contracts, at least for some players, they need to push for a soft cap at the next CBA negotiations. They should try to institute the superstar exemption like the NBA has, which would allow teams to retain a player by going over the cap. Even then, the contracts don't have to be guaranteed, per se but the players could get more money, which is the ultimate goal. Otherwise, I think this current fight is one they're going to lose.

The NFLPA won't do any of that. They're weak as hell and won't fight for anything of consequence.

I'm selfishly glad as a fan that we don't see any work stoppages, but that's only because the NFLPA rolls over every time.
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#25 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 27 November 2022 - 08:37 AM

The NFLPA won't do any of that. They're weak as hell and won't fight for anything of consequence.

I'm selfishly glad as a fan that we don't see any work stoppages, but that's only because the NFLPA rolls over every time.


Good point. On the flipside, it's odd to me that to see the union take this stance with Lamar and use him as a pawn in this game with the owners.

FWIW, I think Lamar would've taken the deal the Ravens offered if he had an agent. I know we look at the guarantees and for the players, it's a badge of honor/ego boost to get those guaranteed dollars but, if you believe in yourself as player, you will see the total value of the deal. In other words, if Lamar Jackson is the quarterback that he thinks he is, he would see every dollar the Ravens offered, regardless of guarantees. And I know that injuries can happen that impact careers but getting a 130 some million regardless of what goes down would be fine with me.

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"Just remember, whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right." -Stewie Griffin


#26 SouthRider

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Posted 27 November 2022 - 11:40 AM

I like Lamar, but I would rather see the Ravens resign Roquan Smith and get back to being a defensive minded team. I don't think Lamar is on the same level as Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, or even Herbert. Paying him like those guys would be a mistake.

#27 makoman

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Posted 27 November 2022 - 12:15 PM

I like Lamar, but I would rather see the Ravens resign Roquan Smith and get back to being a defensive minded team. I don't think Lamar is on the same level as Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, or even Herbert. Paying him like those guys would be a mistake.

The first two, sure, but they signed a long time ago and contracts always go up.

I’m with Wink that Burrow has been fitted for his gold jacket a little early. QBR isn’t everything, but it’s something, and his best year would be Lamar’s fourth best. I’m not saying he’s bad or anything, just that IMO he’s been a bit over rated and isn’t with the first two guys either.

Herbert, he has all the talent in the world, and I know it’s a team game, but we knock Lamar for the playoffs…it’s his third year and he’s still under .500 career with no playoff appearances, sitting 9th in the conference. I’d like to see some winning before I put him in the Mahomes tier.

But all these guys are going to get paid, it’s the way it is. Kyler shouldn’t have been the highest paid guy either…
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#28 Mackus

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Posted 27 November 2022 - 12:45 PM

Mahomes is the only guy I'm convinced is definitely better than Lamar.

Allen's played better the past two years or so, no issue of anyone says he's clearly better, but I think it can go either way.

I'll take Lamar over all the others. I think there is an argument for a few of them, but Lamar's case is just as strong or stronger. They are all gonna get paid similarly.

#29 Mackus

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Posted 27 November 2022 - 12:53 PM


FWIW, I think Lamar would've taken the deal the Ravens offered if he had an agent. I know we look at the guarantees and for the players, it's a badge of honor/ego boost to get those guaranteed dollars but, if you believe in yourself as player, you will see the total value of the deal. In other words, if Lamar Jackson is the quarterback that he thinks he is, he would see every dollar the Ravens offered, regardless of guarantees. And I know that injuries can happen that impact careers but getting a 130 some million regardless of what goes down would be fine with me.

Strongly disagree with this argument. The idea that Lamar should just take less than market because he's getting a lot anyways is really unrealistic. $5M a year is more than any of us can really comprehend should he just take that? $20M? No.

The difference between non-guaranteed and guaranteed money is real and is something worth negotiating for just like the total dollars. I don't know how close to guaranteed the structure the Ravens offered was, but the precedent for $230M+ guaranteed has been set.

There shouldn't be any criticism of Lamar for trying to get as much as he thinks he's worth. Maybe he'll get it, maybe something slightly less. It's in no way a knock on his self-confidence that he doesn't just immediately take the first offer from the Ravens.

I mean, would you let your employer pay you half of your salary with the other half due based on performance when another comparable employer will give you the full amount without any benchmarks to hit? I understand that the scale is different, but the concept is the same.
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#30 Slidemaster

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Posted 27 November 2022 - 02:58 PM

I like Lamar, but I would rather see the Ravens resign Roquan Smith and get back to being a defensive minded team. I don't think Lamar is on the same level as Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, or even Herbert. Paying him like those guys would be a mistake.

I was just waiting for someone else to say it before I did. I agree with you.

I'd rather re-sign them both, but I think there is a much better chance that Roquan justifies his contract than Lamar does.

#31 hallas

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Posted 27 November 2022 - 04:47 PM

I like Lamar, but I would rather see the Ravens resign Roquan Smith and get back to being a defensive minded team. I don't think Lamar is on the same level as Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, or even Herbert. Paying him like those guys would be a mistake.

 

I think that signing an off-ball linebacker at 18 million a year, in an era where off-ball linebackers are as devalued as they've ever been, is a colossal mistake if it means you're giving up on a top-5 quarterback in exchange.


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#32 Slidemaster

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Posted 27 November 2022 - 04:49 PM

I think that signing an off-ball linebacker at 18 million a year, in an era where off-ball linebackers are as devalued as they've ever been, is a colossal mistake if it means you're giving up on a top-5 quarterback in exchange.

He's not a top 5 quarterback.

He's probably somewhere between 7 and 12.

#33 BaltBird 24

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Posted 27 November 2022 - 04:51 PM

He's not going to be worth whatever he's end up paid. We're going to suck with or without him.

#34 SouthRider

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Posted 27 November 2022 - 06:05 PM

I think that signing an off-ball linebacker at 18 million a year, in an era where off-ball linebackers are as devalued as they've ever been, is a colossal mistake if it means you're giving up on a top-5 quarterback in exchange.


Which QB stat is Lamar top 5 in? Seriously, I had a look and I see him middle of the pack in everything, except rushing of course. Granted, he doesn't have an elite receiver to throw to like most of the other guys. An elite receiver won't help on the deep ball unless Lamar works on his accuracy. For the record, I would like to see him resigned but not for what it is going to cost.

Roquan has made a huge difference since he has been here. The Ravens held Jacksonville to field goals mainly due to his impact. Except for the last drive, they stopped giving up those huge chunk plays we saw so much under Wink and earlier this season. I think his signing will be more impactful. Since the position is so devalued, as you say, I would hope EDC takes the money-ball approach and acts accordingly.

#35 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 27 November 2022 - 06:13 PM

He's not going to be worth whatever he's end up paid. We're going to suck with or without him.


Do you think we suck right now?

There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

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#36 BaltBird 24

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Posted 27 November 2022 - 06:15 PM

Do you think we suck right now?


No, but we're also not paying him $50 million a year yet.

We're very mediocre with him still on a rookie contract.

#37 CantonJester

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Posted 27 November 2022 - 07:10 PM

https://twitter.com/...jQsQ0cH40tyKxnw

 

Not a good look, Lamar. 



#38 BaltBird 24

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Posted 27 November 2022 - 07:14 PM

Sometimes your superstar QB just needs to tell some random dude on Twitter that he's never done anything but eat dick.

Mahomes and Allen and the rest do it all the time.

#39 Mackus

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Posted 27 November 2022 - 07:20 PM

Lamar's got a ton of banked goodwill in the character department so I'll forgive some stupid frustrated comments on Twitter. Walk back the homophobia with an apology and don't let it happen again. This is a bummer.

(assuming that's his account...Twitter ended the fake account, $8 blue check stuff right?)

#40 Biggsy

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Posted 27 November 2022 - 07:21 PM

Sometimes your superstar QB just needs to tell some random dude on Twitter that he's never done anything but eat dick.

Mahomes and Allen and the rest do it all the time.



To be fair, Allen and Mahomes don't deal with unfair criticism after every single game, from a bunch of idiotic casual fans.




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