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MASN: Elias: "I feel like this team is officially in the fight in the AL East"


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#21 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 05 October 2022 - 05:21 PM

Couldn’t care less about words.

#22 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 05 October 2022 - 07:53 PM

Bring on the offseason!! Im excited but nervous too. 


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#23 glenn__davis

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Posted 06 October 2022 - 05:25 AM

Bring on the offseason!! Im excited but nervous too. 

 

First offseason I've cared about in a long, long time.  Not that I'm necessarily expecting big FA signings, but ultimately there are some really interesting decisions that need to be made, particularly in the infield, and I'm looking forward to seeing which direction they go.  They're going to need to move some guys - who do they move, and for what?


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#24 bmore_ken

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Posted 06 October 2022 - 08:22 AM

Good that means no excuse for not signing free agents this offseason. You said you'd add pieces when the team was ready to compete, they just competed. 



#25 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 06 October 2022 - 08:48 AM


Good that means no excuse for not signing free agents this offseason. You said you'd add pieces when the team was ready to compete, they just competed.

I’m in believe it when I see it mode. I think there are going to be A LOT of disappointed O’s fans come Spring Training.

Also hate how often he hedges with “the AL East is so hard” - BS. Get out of here with that nonsense and man up. I have zero interest in hearing how hard you think it is. Get the job done. It isn’t an excuse. We also get to face those teams a lot less next year, but he conveniently fails to mention that part.

We’ll see. I’m quite skeptical. But I love a lot of what he’s done and doing, and we’ll be in good shape next year regardless. But they need to go for it, and stop hedging about how hard the competition is.
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#26 Mackus

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Posted 06 October 2022 - 10:12 AM

I’m in believe it when I see it mode. I think there are going to be A LOT of disappointed O’s fans come Spring Training.

Also hate how often he hedges with “the AL East is so hard” - BS. Get out of here with that nonsense and man up. I have zero interest in hearing how hard you think it is. Get the job done. It isn’t an excuse. We also get to face those teams a lot less next year, but he conveniently fails to mention that part.

We’ll see. I’m quite skeptical. But I love a lot of what he’s done and doing, and we’ll be in good shape next year regardless. But they need to go for it, and stop hedging about how hard the competition is.

 

Agree, but I don't think we're in good shape for next year regardless. 83-wins isn't the baseline, its something a good bit less, IMO.  Gotta add talent or get significant internal improvement just to get back to this level of good.  Need both to push past it and get into the playoffs.



#27 DuffMan

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Posted 06 October 2022 - 10:36 AM

Lock up Rutchman now please!  Mariners have made long term  commitments to 2 of their players now.  Just once I want to see the O's do that,  Elias seems like the GM that can get that done and who better than Adley.  I would feel a lot better about this team if I knee we had him locked up for a few years beyond his rookie deal.



#28 Old Man

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Posted 06 October 2022 - 10:51 AM

MASN: Elias: "I feel like this team is officially in the fight in the AL East"

https://www.masnspor...I5BJv7xmUYE5i28

I dont believe he was saying this before the trade deadline, and he should have been.


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#29 Mackus

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Posted 06 October 2022 - 01:08 PM

Lock up Rutchman now please!  Mariners have made long term  commitments to 2 of their players now.  Just once I want to see the O's do that,  Elias seems like the GM that can get that done and who better than Adley.  I would feel a lot better about this team if I knee we had him locked up for a few years beyond his rookie deal.

 

I'd be surprised if Elias doesn't want to do this. The tricky part is getting the players to agree.

 

Rutschman I think would be interested.  As a catcher who hit MLB at an older age, he's got more risk in his profile than a lot of other position players.  Assuming he gets a full year of service for 2022, he'll hit free agency after 2027 as he's heading into his Age 30 season.  Not a lot of catchers get paid huge dollars for their 30s.  So I think guaranteeing him a lot of money up front including a big but not top-of-market value for a couple FA years might be enticing.

 

Henderson on the other hand, I'm all but certain will not be extending.  Primary reason is obvious, his agent is Scott Boras.  Sure, the agent works for the player, but the player hires the agent knowing their recommendations and their reputation.  Henderson isn't gonna sign a deal that delays him hitting free agency (after 2028, heading into Age 28 season).



#30 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 06 October 2022 - 01:25 PM

I'd be surprised if Elias doesn't want to do this. The tricky part is getting the players to agree.

 

Rutschman I think would be interested.  As a catcher who hit MLB at an older age, he's got more risk in his profile than a lot of other position players.  Assuming he gets a full year of service for 2022, he'll hit free agency after 2027 as he's heading into his Age 30 season.  Not a lot of catchers get paid huge dollars for their 30s.  So I think guaranteeing him a lot of money up front including a big but not top-of-market value for a couple FA years might be enticing.

 

Henderson on the other hand, I'm all but certain will not be extending.  Primary reason is obvious, his agent is Scott Boras.  Sure, the agent works for the player, but the player hires the agent knowing their recommendations and their reputation.  Henderson isn't gonna sign a deal that delays him hitting free agency (after 2028, heading into Age 28 season).

I am fine with extending Adley...but it would have to be a pretty cost friendly deal for the bolded reason



#31 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 06 October 2022 - 01:28 PM

I expect the '23 payroll to be between 70-80 mil. That doesnt incude the deffered money. Dont expect long term deals. 3 years being the longest

#32 Mackus

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Posted 06 October 2022 - 01:37 PM

I expect the '23 payroll to be between 70-80 mil. That doesnt incude the deffered money. Dont expect long term deals. 3 years being the longest

 

Who do you think could be signed for a 3-year deal?

 

I could see Verlander and Abreu on short deals.  3-years makes sense for Verlander, similar to what Scherzer just signed.  I was thinking it'd take 4 for Abreu.  JD Martinez probably would sign for 3.  I don't see any big SP other than Verlander going for 3, but perhaps that's a spot better sought via trade.

 

$70-80M total is only $35-45M in additions.  That'll go real quick if you're signing anyone who is actually above average.  That would be the very low end of what could be acceptable.


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#33 bmore_ken

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Posted 06 October 2022 - 01:48 PM

I am fine with extending Adley...but it would have to be a pretty cost friendly deal for the bolded reason

I'm pretty sure his agent will disagree.



#34 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 06 October 2022 - 02:38 PM

I'm pretty sure his agent will disagree.

Well or course that what agents are for. But facts are on my side. Catchers age quicker than other positions. His value is still good even at DH but not, IMO, what it is as a catcher.



#35 mweb08

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Posted 06 October 2022 - 03:09 PM

Who do you think could be signed for a 3-year deal?

I could see Verlander and Abreu on short deals. 3-years makes sense for Verlander, similar to what Scherzer just signed. I was thinking it'd take 4 for Abreu. JD Martinez probably would sign for 3. I don't see any big SP other than Verlander going for 3, but perhaps that's a spot better sought via trade.

$70-80M total is only $35-45M in additions. That'll go real quick if you're signing anyone who is actually above average. That would be the very low end of what could be acceptable.


I don't think that payroll is acceptable at all. They've spent very little for several years in a row and now they're on the verge of contending, so turn on the faucet!

I do think there's a lot of value in getting a marquee player or two on short-term deals. I've mentioned Verlander several times because I think he'd be perfect for that.
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#36 Mackus

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Posted 06 October 2022 - 03:39 PM

I don't think that payroll is acceptable at all. They've spent very little for several years in a row and now they're on the verge of contending, so turn on the faucet!

 

I tried to word it to leave some wiggle room for that to still be an ok path.  It certainly can't be the path for all FA additions, the 3-4 guys we need to add simply would cost too much on the open market to only increase payroll by $40M.  Double that, likely, if we go purely through free agency.

 

But for example, if they trade for two good SP who make a total of $12M (say a 3rd year guy and a 5th year guy), give $20M to Abreu, and sign a good backup catcher, you're looking at a total payroll of like $70M.  I would absolutely agree that they still should have room to add beyond that, so go sign an upgrade to Hays and a good RP while you're at it.  But I wouldn't say an offseason where we add two good young SP and one big bat is unacceptable even if it leads to a total payroll of only $70M.

 

I don't think trading for most of the upgrades is a very viable path, there are plenty of good targets that only cost money, but it is a path that could be perfectly acceptable.  But its definitely more on the zebras side of things, rather than just the free agent horses.


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#37 mweb08

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Posted 06 October 2022 - 03:56 PM

I tried to word it to leave some wiggle room for that to still be an ok path. It certainly can't be the path for all FA additions, the 3-4 guys we need to add simply would cost too much on the open market to only increase payroll by $40M. Double that, likely, if we go purely through free agency.

But for example, if they trade for two good SP who make a total of $12M (say a 3rd year guy and a 5th year guy), give $20M to Abreu, and sign a good backup catcher, you're looking at a total payroll of like $70M. I would absolutely agree that they still should have room to add beyond that, so go sign an upgrade to Hays and a good RP while you're at it. But I wouldn't say an offseason where we add two good young SP and one big bat is unacceptable even if it leads to a total payroll of only $70M.

I don't think trading for most of the upgrades is a very viable path, there are plenty of good targets that only cost money, but it is a path that could be perfectly acceptable. But its definitely more on the zebras side of things, rather than just the free agent horses.


I don't think it makes much sense to rely on trading young assets as their primary method of improving.

They have a ton of money available to improve the team, well at least they should. So if they do, spend it while keeping a great deal of the young talent around. That young talent will in turn hopefully keep future payrolls from becoming bloated as some of them graduate to the Bigs.

#38 Mackus

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Posted 06 October 2022 - 04:03 PM

I don't think it makes much sense to rely on trading young assets as their primary method of improving.

They have a ton of money available to improve the team, well at least they should. So if they do, spend it while keeping a great deal of the young talent around. That young talent will in turn hopefully keep future payrolls from becoming bloated as some of them graduate to the Bigs.

 

I'm open to any method of improving the team.  Agree that free agency seems the clearer path. But there aren't a ton of SP options available and even if you're willing to throw around top dollar you've gotta convince the guy to sign here when other more familiar teams are also gonna be in the mix.



#39 makoman

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Posted 06 October 2022 - 04:07 PM

I'm open to any method of improving the team.  Agree that free agency seems the clearer path. But there aren't a ton of SP options available and even if you're willing to throw around top dollar you've gotta convince the guy to sign here when other more familiar teams are also gonna be in the mix.

 

Yeah SP is kinda the biggest weakness on the team and not a clear FA avenue. Also, if you believe in the system there are more position players coming than there are spots to play them. I am pretty much expecting a biggish trade this offseason, with of course no idea at all who might be involved.



#40 mweb08

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Posted 06 October 2022 - 04:16 PM

I'm open to any method of improving the team. Agree that free agency seems the clearer path. But there aren't a ton of SP options available and even if you're willing to throw around top dollar you've gotta convince the guy to sign here when other more familiar teams are also gonna be in the mix.


Sure, there have to be alternatives to plan A, but I'd try very hard to convince free agents to come here before trading off significant young talent.

I apologize for being repetitive about this, but the amount of short-term money invested in someone such as Verlander should hardly matter. I'd offer pretty much whatever it takes to land him on a 2 year deal and then still have plenty of money left over to pursue more talent.




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