638 replies to this topic

[You Play to Win the Game]

Will this game go in camp mako/Mike B - or in camp Ricker? Raiders scored a game tying TD (except they missed the 2 PTA so are down 1) with 4+ mins left. Now LV has the ball under 2 minutes left still down 1. Will KC’s defense hold, or pull a Ravens?

[makoman]

I don't really have a camp I don't think, I'm not really arguing that the Ravens defense has been good, just that allowing scoring drives isn't unusual. Generally in recent years teams score on something like 35-40% of drives, with 20-25% of drives being TDs. So you can find plenty of times where a team scored in an important drive, but also plenty of times where they didn't. Does that happening in the last drive of the Dolphins, Bills, and Bengals games mean the team is especially unclutch, or did they just roll 7 three times in a row? I'd say the latter until I see more evidence, but I will keep an open mind that it could be the former, and a team that is bad against the pass as they've been probably has more of a chance of losing late when teams are mostly passing. But again the Bengals, 8th in points allowed, now have 3 walk off losses in 5 weeks.

 

If I am in a camp it's that points allowed are important throughout the game, so I think a 17 point effort is good despite allowing a late TD. The Chiefs did well to get the stop in the last drive, but it wouldn't have been necessary if they didn't allow 29 points. And they allowed a 50 yard TD with under 5 minutes left that could have and maybe should have lost them the game, or at least forced OT, so that's not exactly proof of clutchness either IMO.

[You Play to Win the Game]

There’s been a lot of evidence. This goes back to last year too. I’m specifically talking about last drive scenarios, not the defense as a whole. We had many great and even good defenses over the years - that is why their performance late in games jumps out so much to me, it’s such a stark contrast. I see defenses closing out wins on RedZone every week. But not the Ravens.

[bmore_ken]

I wonder if these last quarter collapses across the league are reflective of how little these guys play in preseason now. Maybe defenses are just not conditioned enough yet.

I can't say it definitively because obviously I'm not an NFL player. But even as a place kicker in a division 3 College we went through two a days. These guys are being coddled that's for damn sure. But there is also a lot of money at stake so I get it.

[makoman]

There’s been a lot of evidence. This goes back to last year too. I’m specifically talking about last drive scenarios, not the defense as a whole. We had many great and even good defenses over the years - that is why their performance late in games jumps out so much to me, it’s such a stark contrast. I see defenses closing out wins on RedZone every week. But not the Ravens.

Ok. Last year they allowed 0 points in the 4th five times (including 0 in the second half twice) and 3 points twice. They blew a number of games in the end for sure, at least three under 2:00 and then two more where the offense came back after those. They even did both good and bad in one game, blowing the lead in regulation vs the Vikings then getting a 3 and out in OT after Lamar's pick to let Lamar have another chance. I don't agree that last drive specifically matters more than other drives, and I don't agree that last year's team with an entirely different scheme and approach and a big chunk of different players indicates a ton about this year's team. But we can agree to disagree, I know I'm not changing your mind.

[bmore_ken]

I thought Queen was a force last night, but when I read through the game thread, I kept seeing how bad he was.  The man was all over the field playing well last night.

I agree. Sometimes I feel like I'm watching a different game than everyone else here.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Ok. Last year they allowed 0 points in the 4th five times (including 0 in the second half twice) and 3 points twice. They blew a number of games in the end for sure, at least three under 2:00 and then two more where the offense came back after those. They even did both good and bad in one game, blowing the lead in regulation vs the Vikings then getting a 3 and out in OT after Lamar's pick to let Lamar have another chance. I don't agree that last drive specifically matters more than other drives, and I don't agree that last year's team with an entirely different scheme and approach and a big chunk of different players indicates a ton about this year's team. But we can agree to disagree, I know I'm not changing your mind.

Final drives clearly matter more. By this logic, there’s no such thing as high leverage situation in baseball games right?

[makoman]

Final drives clearly matter more. By this logic, there’s no such thing as high leverage situation in baseball games right?

That was wrong and poor wording, yes they matter more. Wilting at the end without time to come back is much worse than giving up a lead with 10 minutes left. Though I do maintain that the overall game matters significantly. 17 points with a TD at the end is usually better than 30 points without one, but of course maybe not.

 

What was in my head: I don't know that the last drive matters that much as far as how well they do, that there is a clutchness of the entire defense type of thing. Yes some relievers are far better than others in high leverage, but does that apply to an 11 person defense? Not convinced of that. I think that's our main disagreement.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Fair enough. Appreciate the back and forth.

[Slidemaster]

Was there any explanation given as to why Dobbins lost work to Kenyan Drake in the 4th quarter?

[You Play to Win the Game]

Was there any explanation given as to why Dobbins lost work to Kenyan Drake in the 4th quarter?

He isn’t re-injured or anything - so the explanation seems clear. They are bringing him along cautiously.

It can be frustrating, but again I admire that they are trying conscientiously to do something different. It’s certainly a balance though. I definitely have zero of the right answers on this stuff. I’m sure they are relying on licensed medical staff for this stuff. It would be logical to me that more injuries occur when tired/fatigued. Maybe they feel they got lucky in week 4 when he was visibly gassed in the 2nd half, and wanted to be more proactive this week?

[Slidemaster]

He isn’t re-injured or anything - so the explanation seems clear. They are bringing him along cautiously.

It can be frustrating, but again I admire that they are trying conscientiously to do something different. It’s certainly a balance though. I definitely have zero of the right answers on this stuff. I’m sure they are relying on licensed medical staff for this stuff. It would be logical to me that more injuries occur when tired/fatigued. Maybe they feel they got lucky in week 4 when he was visibly gassed in the 2nd half, and wanted to be more proactive this week?

I get that, but he got less work this week than last week, by a wide margin.

[makoman]

Dobbins was on the injury report all week for his chest and didn't practice Wednesday. Not sure what that was about or if it was meaningful at all, we know they don't give out much more detail than the report itself.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I get that, but he got less work this week than last week, by a wide margin.

It’s likely a course correction as even the casual fan could see that he was gassed the 2nd half of week 4 and probably shouldn’t have had those carries.

[makoman]

It’s likely a course correction as even the casual fan could see that he was gassed the 2nd half of week 4 and probably shouldn’t have had those carries.

Yeah this too, he looked a lot worse in the second half against the Bills. 5.5 Y/attempt vs being in the 3s the first two weeks, maybe it helped him to be a little fresher.

 

This will be a stronger team at the end of the year if all the injured guys come back, but not if they get all banged up on the way.

[Mike B]

I agree. Sometimes I feel like I'm watching a different game than everyone else here.

Queen was the highest rated Raven against the Bengals.  I just think he gets more heat than is warranted. I do not think he is a star, and is probably more suited to be Robin to some others ILB Batman, but I do not think he is anywhere near as bad as some want to make him.

[Mike B]

Yeah this too, he looked a lot worse in the second half against the Bills. 5.5 Y/attempt vs being in the 3s the first two weeks, maybe it helped him to be a little fresher.

 

This will be a stronger team at the end of the year if all the injured guys come back, but not if they get all banged up on the way.

Harbs talked about JK in his presser.  He said he was on a pitch count.  They clearly are working a plan.  I guess they could hold him out until after halftime, but if they and the doctors feel like it is better if he plays the first half and it helps the team start fast, I am good with it.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Queen was the highest rated Raven against the Bengals. I just think he gets more heat than is warranted. I do not think he is a star, and is probably more suited to be Robin to some others ILB Batman, but I do not think he is anywhere near as bad as some want to make him.

But I declared just last week that Queen is my new scapegoat. Stop presenting me with facts to already force me off this. Very inconsiderate of you.

[Mackus]

Queen was the highest rated Raven against the Bengals.  I just think he gets more heat than is warranted. I do not think he is a star, and is probably more suited to be Robin to some others ILB Batman, but I do not think he is anywhere near as bad as some want to make him.

 

If he's not a star then he's a disappointing pick.  And I think we all agree he's not a star.

 

Disappointing pick doesn't necessarily mean he isn't still a good player.  But in Queen's case I think it does.  I don't even think that he's a good starter.  Passable at best, but it'd be better to upgrade.  He has some skills and he's good at certain things, but overall I don't think he compares favorably to any of the starting ILB we've had in recent memory (yet alone the strong history before that).