406 replies to this topic

[mdrunning]

Arbitration is a process, nothing more. It isn't perfect, but it's available when all other options have been exhausted. 

 

No player should take what's said in an arbitration hearing personally; it's simply the job of the club to paint the player in the worst possible light, while the player agent does the exact opposite. What typically drives both sides crazy is the sheer randomness. Arbitration is a plum assignment to those fortunate enough to get the gig (they're chosen each year by both players and management), and the trick is to not vote one way too many times and get the other side angry enough to want to fire you.

 

This is the maddening aspect of arbitration. You can wind up winning the cases you should have lost and losing the ones you should have won. But distasteful as the players in particular may find it, I'm guessing they're not of a mind to eliminate it.

[Slidemaster]

Arbitration is a process, nothing more. It isn't perfect, but it's available when all other options have been exhausted.

No player should take what's said in an arbitration hearing personally; it's simply the job of the club to paint the player in the worst possible light, while the player agent does the exact opposite. What typically drives both sides crazy is the sheer randomness. Arbitration is a plum assignment to those fortunate enough to get the gig (they're chosen each year by both players and management), and the trick is to not vote one way too many times and get the other side angry enough to want to fire you.

This is the maddening aspect of arbitration. You can wind up winning the cases you should have lost and losing the ones you should have won. But distasteful as the players in particular may find it, I'm guessing they're not of a mind to eliminate it.

Whether they should or they shouldn't, it's human nature.

[JeremyStrain]

Whether they should or they shouldn't, it's human nature.

That’s exactly what Burnes said. He said it wasn’t WHAT they said but how they went about it. Made it about him having personal failings and weaknesses instead of the results. Said he came with numbers and data but then they were basically like well if he was a real ace we wouldn’t have faded down the stretch when we needed him.

There’s a way to do arb business wise and there’s a way to make it personal and too many teams do the latter. Then you can’t trust them anymore when they try to be buddy buddy cause you e already told them what you think of them deep down.

[Slidemaster]

That’s exactly what Burnes said. He said it wasn’t WHAT they said but how they went about it. Made it about him having personal failings and weaknesses instead of the results. Said he came with numbers and data but then they were basically like well if he was a real ace we wouldn’t have faded down the stretch when we needed him.

There’s a way to do arb business wise and there’s a way to make it personal and too many teams do the latter. Then you can’t trust them anymore when they try to be buddy buddy cause you e already told them what you think of them deep down.

Genuinely that might be the stupidest argument I've ever heard a team try to make. Like that's lazy logic for the most casual fan, let alone a professional baseball organization.

I can see just bringing data and comparisons to other players and letting the judge base it on statistics. Making it personal seems like the worst possible strategy.

[JeremyStrain]

Genuinely that might be the stupidest argument I've ever heard a team try to make. Like that's lazy logic for the most casual fan, let alone a professional baseball organization.

I can see just bringing data and comparisons to other players and letting the judge base it on statistics. Making it personal seems like the worst possible strategy.

Yeah it was pretty enlightening. I've heard bits here and there over the years (I want to say it was Mussina here) who said that they just drag you through the mud and tell you how you aren't worth anything trying to save a couple dollars (rarely are cases over MAJOR gaps). Then they want to turn around and be like no hard feelings right? And you wonder why they leave.

 

I could accept it if they came in like you said and said these three guys had similar or better numbers in this stat and made x amount, and these guys had similar and better numbers in this stat and THIS is what they made so we feel like THIS is a fair offer. That's exactly the approach the Rays RP took. But to make it petty and personal to try to save a couple dollars, while watching them make a stupid signing here or there that wastes 5 times as much money for a guy that will never play in the ML, is just plain stupid to me.

[Slidemaster]

Yeah it was pretty enlightening. I've heard bits here and there over the years (I want to say it was Mussina here) who said that they just drag you through the mud and tell you how you aren't worth anything trying to save a couple dollars (rarely are cases over MAJOR gaps). Then they want to turn around and be like no hard feelings right? And you wonder why they leave.

I could accept it if they came in like you said and said these three guys had similar or better numbers in this stat and made x amount, and these guys had similar and better numbers in this stat and THIS is what they made so we feel like THIS is a fair offer. That's exactly the approach the Rays RP took. But to make it petty and personal to try to save a couple dollars, while watching them make a stupid signing here or there that wastes 5 times as much money for a guy that will never play in the ML, is just plain stupid to me.

Nope, it makes utterly no sense. The money they're trying to save doesn't even qualify as a drop in the bucket compared to what the benefits could be in fostering good will with an important player.

[BSLRoseKatz]

Jorge with a 1-2-3 inning in the WBC against Soto, J-Rod and Manny