Photo

MASN: Elias' view of Hall and Rodriguez from an opposing organization


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 BSLChrisStoner

BSLChrisStoner

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 155,681 posts

Posted 25 May 2022 - 08:04 AM

MASN: Elias' view of Hall and Rodriguez from an opposing organization

https://www.masnspor...ng-organization



#2 Mike B

Mike B

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 37,618 posts
  • LocationTowson Md.

Posted 25 May 2022 - 09:44 AM

Baseball is a very strange game.  It is amazing at times, how things work out.  I think we see Grayson this weekend.


@mikeghg

#3 BSLMikeLowe

BSLMikeLowe

    CFB Analyst

  • Moderators
  • 19,275 posts
  • LocationPortland, Oregon

Posted 25 May 2022 - 10:32 AM

I think we see Grayson this weekend.

 

I doubt they're going to have him make his first start in Boston, even with the doubleheader mess. He'll get his scheduled start Friday in Norfolk, and if all goes well, maybe next Wednesday against Seattle.



#4 Mike B

Mike B

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 37,618 posts
  • LocationTowson Md.

Posted 25 May 2022 - 11:55 AM

I doubt they're going to have him make his first start in Boston, even with the doubleheader mess. He'll get his scheduled start Friday in Norfolk, and if all goes well, maybe next Wednesday against Seattle.

Maybe, but to me it is not that big a deal if a pitcher debuts on the road.  Bottom line they need a starter for the doubleheader and if not Grayson then who..  


@mikeghg

#5 BSLMikeLowe

BSLMikeLowe

    CFB Analyst

  • Moderators
  • 19,275 posts
  • LocationPortland, Oregon

Posted 25 May 2022 - 12:15 PM

Maybe, but to me it is not that big a deal if a pitcher debuts on the road.  Bottom line they need a starter for the doubleheader and if not Grayson then who..  

 

I think having these top guys debut at home is coming mostly from above Elias' pay grade, though I imagine that's more preference than mandate. From a baseball standpoint, I just think they want to see Rodriguez stretched 6+ at least one more time. Elias has repeatedly said that the debut of their prospects will be based on when they think they're ready, and not about need at the ML level....and that certainly seemed to have held up with Rutschman.

 

As for what happens Saturday, it probably won't be pretty. I'm sure they are crossing every finger that Bradish can go 6-7 Friday night. That, combined with the off-day tomorrow should enable them to piece together enough arms to get through the first game, and then hope Lyles can go his usual 6-7 in Game 2.



#6 Mackus

Mackus

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 60,365 posts

Posted 25 May 2022 - 12:19 PM

Rodriguez still hasn't reached 90 pitches.  I don't know what the cap will be for him, probably not much higher, but I would think that they want to see him reach that max and then pitch again to see how he bounces back.  Maybe do that twice?



#7 BSLChrisStoner

BSLChrisStoner

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 155,681 posts

Posted 25 May 2022 - 01:08 PM

Why? He'd be replacing Watkins...  Watkins had 81 pitches once, 76 twice.



#8 BSLMikeLowe

BSLMikeLowe

    CFB Analyst

  • Moderators
  • 19,275 posts
  • LocationPortland, Oregon

Posted 25 May 2022 - 01:15 PM

Why? He'd be replacing Watkins...  Watkins had 81 pitches once, 76 twice.

 

Watkins was nearly 29 y/o and a MiL free agent flier when he debuted. I doubt they felt the need to take the same approach with him as they do the current #1 pitching prospect in baseball.



#9 BSLChrisStoner

BSLChrisStoner

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 155,681 posts

Posted 25 May 2022 - 01:25 PM

Watkins was nearly 29 y/o and a MiL free agent flier when he debuted. I doubt they felt the need to take the same approach with him as they do the current #1 pitching prospect in baseball.

 

Rodriguez has 66 k's, and has allowed 29 hits in 43.1 innings.  His development isn't changed if he's up this weekend or 3 weeks from now. 

All you are asking of him now, is to replace the 5th starter.  The average start in baseball is something like 5.1 innings at this point.  A 5th starter is obviously going to below that. 

That's the bar for him right now.  Be an adequate 5th starter, and get some extended ML experience during the remainder of '22, so he'll be that much more prepared to produce at a higher level next year.



#10 Mackus

Mackus

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 60,365 posts

Posted 25 May 2022 - 01:36 PM

Why? He'd be replacing Watkins...  Watkins had 81 pitches once, 76 twice.

 

I'd be fine with him coming up now and being limited to 85-90 pitches, but I doubt they want him accruing service time while he's still in pretty tight handcuffs both in terms of pitchers per start and innings for the season.

 

For Rutschman it was nonsense they were masquerading as box-checking.  I think there is a more real baseball and development reason for holding Rodriguez down up to another six weeks or so.  How a pitcher is able to throw when deep into a game and a little tired and how a pitcher is able to bounce back the next time after a long outing are both important parts of being a major league starter.  I've got no issue with letting him experience those things in the minors rather than asking him to do it for the first time in the majors when he's also trying to learn how to get the best hitters out at this level.  He hasn't reached 90 pitches since 2019.

 

Not at all opposed to him coming up now and doing that learning here, but I don't think leaving him down is a farcical cover for service manipulation like it was with Rutschman.


  • makoman likes this

#11 BSLMikeLowe

BSLMikeLowe

    CFB Analyst

  • Moderators
  • 19,275 posts
  • LocationPortland, Oregon

Posted 25 May 2022 - 01:39 PM

Rodriguez has 66 k's, and has allowed 29 hits in 43.1 innings.  His development isn't changed if he's up this weekend or 3 weeks from now. 

All you are asking of him now, is to replace the 5th starter.  The average start in baseball is something like 5.1 innings at this point.  A 5th starter is obviously going to below that. 

That's the bar for him right now.  Be an adequate 5th starter, and get some extended ML experience during the remainder of '22, so he'll be that much more prepared to produce at a higher level next year.

 

That's how I personally view it too. I think he's shown plenty enough at AAA to advance. But it seems pretty clear that Elias prefers a much more deliberate approach. That's really all I'm saying.



#12 BSLChrisStoner

BSLChrisStoner

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 155,681 posts

Posted 25 May 2022 - 01:55 PM

I'd be fine with him coming up now and being limited to 85-90 pitches, but I doubt they want him accruing service time while he's still in pretty tight handcuffs both in terms of pitchers per start and innings for the season.

 

For Rutschman it was nonsense they were masquerading as box-checking.  I think there is a more real baseball and development reason for holding Rodriguez down up to another six weeks or so.  How a pitcher is able to throw when deep into a game and a little tired and how a pitcher is able to bounce back the next time after a long outing are both important parts of being a major league starter.  I've got no issue with letting him experience those things in the minors rather than asking him to do it for the first time in the majors when he's also trying to learn how to get the best hitters out at this level.  He hasn't reached 90 pitches since 2019.

 

Not at all opposed to him coming up now and doing that learning here, but I don't think leaving him down is a farcical cover for service manipulation like it was with Rutschman.

 

 

That's how I personally view it too. I think he's shown plenty enough at AAA to advance. But it seems pretty clear that Elias prefers a much more deliberate approach. That's really all I'm saying.

 

I don't think Rodriguez is fully baked; but I think he's done enough at AAA to earn the promotion. 
I don't think having him up this weekend is rushing him. 

I think the clichés are true. Baseball is a game of adjustments, and failure. 
Whenever he comes up, he'll have adjustments, and he'll go through some 'failures',  
I'm just ready to get on with it.  My feeling is don't ask too much of him, don't expect too much from him...  but let's go. Jump in the pool and get the feet wet.  


  • BSLSteveBirrer likes this

#13 jamesdean

jamesdean

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,015 posts

Posted 25 May 2022 - 04:21 PM

I doubt we'll see Hall anytime soon. They're being hyper-careful with his work load which is still pretty light right now. The guy has electric stuff but is wild and throws a ton of pitches.

#14 BSLChrisStoner

BSLChrisStoner

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 155,681 posts

Posted 25 May 2022 - 04:27 PM

I doubt we'll see Hall anytime soon. They're being hyper-careful with his work load which is still pretty light right now. The guy has electric stuff but is wild and throws a ton of pitches.


The limited work-load isn't a reason to not bring him up. If anything, it makes it easier. 



#15 BSLLukeRollfinke

BSLLukeRollfinke

    BSL Analyst

  • Members
  • 161 posts

Posted 25 May 2022 - 05:40 PM

I saw Hyde said he expects to use a AAA arm this weekend. Thoughts on who it will be between Kremer, Lowther, Baumann, or Rodriguez? I think we'd all like it to be Rodriguez but hard to imagine them giving him his first start on the road in Boston.


@LukeRollfinke

#16 BSLMikeLowe

BSLMikeLowe

    CFB Analyst

  • Moderators
  • 19,275 posts
  • LocationPortland, Oregon

Posted 25 May 2022 - 05:46 PM

I saw Hyde said he expects to use a AAA arm this weekend. Thoughts on who it will be between Kremer, Lowther, Baumann, or Rodriguez? I think we'd all like it to be Rodriguez but hard to imagine them giving him his first start on the road in Boston.

 

Or this guy.

 

https://www.mlbtrade...from-twins.html



#17 BSLChrisStoner

BSLChrisStoner

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 155,681 posts

Posted 25 May 2022 - 05:51 PM

I saw Hyde said he expects to use a AAA arm this weekend. Thoughts on who it will be between Kremer, Lowther, Baumann, or Rodriguez? I think we'd all like it to be Rodriguez but hard to imagine them giving him his first start on the road in Boston.

 

Can't be Lowther.   He's been a disaster over his 23 innings so far this year.  Can't reward that lack of performance. 

In my head he's 'gone' until he starts doing anything (and with consistency) to make you pay attention. 



#18 Mackus

Mackus

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 60,365 posts

Posted 25 May 2022 - 07:00 PM


The limited work-load isn't a reason to not bring him up. If anything, it makes it easier. 

 

But isn't the inability to get AAA guys out consistently a reason not to bring him up?  If he were dominating in his short stints, that'd be a consideration at least.  But he's had three outings so far and while the stuff has reportedly been good, the box scores aren't kind to him yet aside from big K numbers.  7 BB and 2 HBP in 9+ IP doesn't scream "I've got nothing left to learn at AAA" to me.

 

Hall isn't some uber-prospect.  He's kind of just a guy as far as MLB is concerned (obviously he's a bigger deal in just Orioles circles).  Like can any of us name any other pitching prospect ranked between 30 and 80 without looking it up? 

 

With Rodriguez I think it'd be fine to bring him up and also think it's fine to leave him down.  But I think it'd be irresponsible player development to call Hall up at this point.  Maybe the scouts have a completely different story, but nothing in his stat line is saying that he has mastered the levels and is beating the door down for a promotion.



#19 jamesdean

jamesdean

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,015 posts

Posted 25 May 2022 - 07:02 PM

The limited work-load isn't a reason to not bring him up. If anything, it makes it easier. 


I assume they're not projecting him to be a one inning reliever but a starting pitcher. Its going to take awhile before they feel confident that he can go five innings at least.

#20 BSLChrisStoner

BSLChrisStoner

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 155,681 posts

Posted 25 May 2022 - 07:06 PM

His performance over 9 innings is totally irrelevant imo. If he was completely dominating it would still be 9 innings.

The arm is ready, everyone believes in the talent.

He is going to be on an inning / pitch count the rest of the year, wherever he is.

He should be up and used in the piggyback capacity.

Him ending this year with 70-80 ML innings would be the ideal utilization of this time imo.

I dont feel a need to see him master every level to be used like that here in 22.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


Our Sponsors


 width=