48 replies to this topic

[hallas]

First of all, please don't compare Metcalf and Boykin. Metcalf showed more in a single season than Boykin ever has.

Second, I think comparing Brown and Metcalf is deeply flawed. They have wildly different wing spans, verticals reach, and should be used differently. The fact that there is some overlap in the "they both run real fast" department should not indicate that they are even close to the same guy.

I think its no shock that big bodied Mark Andrews was by far Lamar's favorite and most reliable target, while Hollywood had trouble getting the ball in space or thriving in the short and medium game. You need to be able to thread needles and have great anticipation of direction changes to get balls to small receivers in traffic, and I don't think Lamar is at his best when he's doing that. A bigger receiver with a similar skillset but a wider catch radius is likely to be a much more attractive target.

You're right, they're not the same guy, and I pointed out their differences. But their strengths are very similar.

While Metcalf is a great receiver I think you are underselling the extent to which he is a one trick pony. He almost never runs anything other than go routes and underneath routes in the flat to take advantage of soft coverage. I am not certain that Metcalf can consistently get separation on mid range routes. He's literally never been asked to do that. Brown can run every route in the book and get separation. Yes I know that he has T-Rex arms, but he at least gets open. If you want someone with that kind of versatility then you absolutely don't want Metcalf.

You can maybe make an argument that since we have Andrews to act as Lamar's Tyler Lockett, someone like Metcalf would do a lot to keep defenses honest. The problem with this is that Lamar doesn't really have the best arm on deep balls. Probably not as good as Russell Wilson's. Maybe having someone like Metcalf scooping up everything within a 10 foot radius helps, but I am not convinced that it's enough. Especially considering we dont throw the ball that much.

[Slidemaster]

You're right, they're not the same guy, and I pointed out their differences. But their strengths are very similar.

While Metcalf is a great receiver I think you are underselling the extent to which he is a one trick pony. He almost never runs anything other than go routes and underneath routes in the flat to take advantage of soft coverage. I am not certain that Metcalf can consistently get separation on mid range routes. He's literally never been asked to do that. Brown can run every route in the book and get separation. Yes I know that he has T-Rex arms, but he at least gets open. If you want someone with that kind of versatility then you absolutely don't want Metcalf.

You can maybe make an argument that since we have Andrews to act as Lamar's Tyler Lockett, someone like Metcalf would do a lot to keep defenses honest. The problem with this is that Lamar doesn't really have the best arm on deep balls. Probably not as good as Russell Wilson's. Maybe having someone like Metcalf scooping up everything within a 10 foot radius helps, but I am not convinced that it's enough. Especially considering we dont throw the ball that much.

Is Metcalf not the kind of guy you can throw jump balls to and expect him to win? His body type and productivity suggests he should be. I feel like that kind of receiver would play much better to Lamar's strengths, as you just have to get it near them, and they're usually open even when they aren't open.

For the record, I'm not saying the Ravens NEED Metcalf, but as long as the Seahawks are selling everything, he certainly couldn't hurt.

[hallas]

Is Metcalf not the kind of guy you can throw jump balls to and expect him to win? His body type and productivity suggests he should be. I feel like that kind of receiver would play much better to Lamar's strengths, as you just have to get it near them, and they're usually open even when they aren't open.

For the record, I'm not saying the Ravens NEED Metcalf, but as long as the Seahawks are selling everything, he certainly couldn't hurt.

His highlight reel is surprisingly short of jump balls, but it is in his repertoire. In fact he doesn't get much separation at all - he pretty much exclusively relies on being isolated deep and getting a contested ball. Obviously with his speed and size, DBs give him a wide cushion, since jamming him at the LOS probably wont work. So that probably negatively affects his separation. That said, most of his best catches are with him wrestling the ball away from a DB in single coverage. If he's having trouble getting separation when he's isolated deep I feel like throwing him the ball on mid range routes in traffic is asking for trouble.

[Slidemaster]

His highlight reel is surprisingly short of jump balls, but it is in his repertoire. In fact he doesn't get much separation at all - he pretty much exclusively relies on being isolated deep and getting a contested ball. Obviously with his speed and size, DBs give him a wide cushion, since jamming him at the LOS probably wont work. So that probably negatively affects his separation. That said, most of his best catches are with him wrestling the ball away from a DB in single coverage. If he's having trouble getting separation when he's isolated deep I feel like throwing him the ball on mid range routes in traffic is asking for trouble.

I mostly just love the idea that they can't double team both he and Andrews - someone will be in single coverage and in position to make a contested catch.

If he cost a 3rd rounder or less I'd do it. I'd even consider a 2nd.

[PrimeTime]

When talking about WR, I think we have to consider who all will catch passes across the board. If we were to roll with Bateman, Duvernay, Proche and Wallace, I think it's probable that we roll with 4 TEs. Likely was used in the slot in college and not necessarily like a traditional TE. We also will utilize Ricard from time to time in the passing game and provided his health is there, I see Dobbins catching quite few balls as well.

Lest we forget, Lamar threw 36 TDs and won an MVP with a receiving corps of rookie Hollywood Brown coming off his Lisfranc injury, rookie Miles Boykin, Willie Snead, Seth Roberts and cameos from Chris Moore and Jaleel Scott. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem if we decide to add a veteran but I don't think the WR position is the problem it's being made out to be.

[Ravens2006]

I'm beyond over the "Need a WR" obsession. The 2019 Ravens led the NFL in points scored with that offense. The problem that unfolded in the TEN playoff game was the coaching staff / Roman basically completely ABANDONING the running backs after one INT early and an unexpected deficit shortly thereafter. Run that offense. Fortify that O line. Do what the talent does best. Could not care any less at this point if they ever have a Pro Bowl #1 WR. Care more that they win games.

[Slidemaster]

I'm beyond over the "Need a WR" obsession. The 2019 Ravens led the NFL in points scored with that offense. The problem that unfolded in the TEN playoff game was the coaching staff / Roman basically completely ABANDONING the running backs after one INT early and an unexpected deficit shortly thereafter. Run that offense. Fortify that O line. Do what the talent does best. Could not care any less at this point if they ever have a Pro Bowl #1 WR. Care more that they win games.

I'm in a similar boat. I'm happy to add talent to WR but only if it comes at a discount price.

[bmore_ken]

I'm beyond over the "Need a WR" obsession. The 2019 Ravens led the NFL in points scored with that offense. The problem that unfolded in the TEN playoff game was the coaching staff / Roman basically completely ABANDONING the running backs after one INT early and an unexpected deficit shortly thereafter. Run that offense. Fortify that O line. Do what the talent does best. Could not care any less at this point if they ever have a Pro Bowl #1 WR. Care more that they win games.

I always find it amazing when the people like to proclaim Lamar has only won one playoff game as justification for not paying a market contract can't seem to get this. This isn't a 4500 yard passing team. 

[Ravens2006]

I always find it amazing when the people like to proclaim Lamar has only won one playoff game as justification for not paying a market contract can't seem to get this. This isn't a 4500 yard passing team.

The "playoff win" thing is a really easy, low hanging fruit type thing for people to use to make whatever case against a QB / coach / team. It ignores how incredibly rare playoff wins are PERIOD, every year, for every team. It's a one and done scenario between good teams... One of them is going home week one. A lot of good and great QBs have long career stretches with zero or very very few "playoff wins".

And for what it's worth, that 2019 squad by way of going 14-2 had a BYE... Which is basically the equivalent of winning a playoff game. It's the perk of being the best team in the conference through the whole regular season.