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RSR: Ravens Left Out At Wide Out


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#21 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 22 May 2022 - 06:32 PM

Would have liked Landry, but I'm good. I think the offense will be strong.

#22 BaltBird 24

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Posted 22 May 2022 - 06:36 PM

Unlike years past when we tried to fool ourselves into thinking guys like Tandon Doss and Deonte Thompson and Chris Moore can be acceptable WRs....

I actually feel somewhat confident in Bateman, Duvernay, and Proche. Be nice if Wallace and provide a little something, too.
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#23 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 22 May 2022 - 06:37 PM

I dont think the Ravens are overly concerned with adding any WRs. Still believe they will add a vet but doubt its anytime soon. Also doubt it will be a big name like Jones, Fuller, Hilton.

#24 Mike B

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Posted 22 May 2022 - 07:03 PM

I am a fan of Proche.  He has shown flashes.  I also try to attend a few practices and he is always making plays.  I think if they use him in the slot, and LJ gains confidence Proche will catch 65 passes and 6 TD’s.  How is that for being specific? 


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#25 hallas

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Posted 22 May 2022 - 08:46 PM

Unlike years past when we tried to fool ourselves into thinking guys like Tandon Doss and Deonte Thompson and Chris Moore can be acceptable WRs....

I actually feel somewhat confident in Bateman, Duvernay, and Proche. Be nice if Wallace and provide a little something, too.

This is probably an unpopular opinion but while i think Bateman is as good or potentially better than Brown, I don't have much faith in Duvernay or Proche. Our starting receiver corps is way morw talented as what we had in 2019, but I don't think we have the depth.
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#26 cprenegade

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Posted 22 May 2022 - 09:03 PM

Not getting Landry is a disappointment.  I thought he was a perfect fit for the Ravens.  None of the guys left out their now makes me think they can replace Brown.  Will Fuller might be the best out there, but he seems to always be injured.  Feels like another Sammy Watkins move.  

 

I think the Ravens made the smart move trading Brown to get the pick used on Linderbaum.  I think it's the smart move for the future.  Brown had already complained about how he was used, and every indication was that he is going to want a top dollar contract.  The Ravens already decided they weren't going to pay that.  So they maximized their return and got a pick that translated into the best center prospect in quite some time.  Good move.

 

That said, it does not help for the immediate future.  They took a position that was starting to actually look like a strength and turned it into at the very least a question mark.  I think Bateman is a number one receiver candidate.  But let's see the progression.  He needs to step up into that role now.  Nobody can really say what Duvernay and Proche are going to produce.  They've really never been given the chance.  Maybe they can pick up the slack, then again maybe not.  Time will tell.   But right now, the only guy I know I can count on is Mark Andrews.  



#27 St.Steveg

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Posted 22 May 2022 - 11:12 PM

Nobody can really say what Duvernay and Proche are going to produce.  They've really never been given the chance.  Maybe they can pick up the slack, then again maybe not.  Time will tell.   But right now, the only guy I know I can count on is Mark Andrews.  

I sure hope this is not what the coaches in the passing game think. While Andrews had a great season last year and no doubt is the best weapon, the obsessive focus on him was a weakness for the Ravens' offense. Quite a few of Lamar's interceptions came while forcing the ball to Andrews, and both of the failed two-point conversions as well.

 

The running game is the base offense, but it has to be balanced with a productive passing game, and the key to that is spreading the ball around. The difference between those big name receivers on the FA market and Duvernay, Proche, and Wallace is that those guys get the ball. Lamar, the RBs and the OL all have lots of room for improvement in the passing area, and probably will, but let's hope we'll see a better designed aerial strategy.



#28 BSLMikeFast

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Posted 23 May 2022 - 08:34 AM

I'm usually very optimistic, but I have to admit I'm concerned about the wide receiver position this year. My gut tells me the team is going to look to Isaiah Likely or Slade Bolden to fill the production void left by Marquise Brown, as I don't know if any remaining free agents will be a fit.


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#29 makoman

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Posted 23 May 2022 - 09:36 AM

I'm usually very optimistic, but I have to admit I'm concerned about the wide receiver position this year. My gut tells me the team is going to look to Isaiah Likely or Slade Bolden to fill the production void left by Marquise Brown, as I don't know if any remaining free agents will be a fit.


It’s easier if you expect Bateman to replace Brown and then you just need the other guys to replace Bateman’s production. Much more doable. You need to have faith that Bateman will make a big jump, but I do. Also Oliver, Boyle, and Tomlinson combined for 11 catches so anything at all from TEs besides Andrews will be a big improvement.

I wouldn’t mind another vet too, but not a ton out there, don’t want to make a move just to make a move. Maybe some camp cuts will be interesting.

#30 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 23 May 2022 - 10:55 AM

It’s easier if you expect Bateman to replace Brown and then you just need the other guys to replace Bateman’s production. Much more doable. You need to have faith that Bateman will make a big jump, but I do. Also Oliver, Boyle, and Tomlinson combined for 11 catches so anything at all from TEs besides Andrews will be a big improvement.

I wouldn’t mind another vet too, but not a ton out there, don’t want to make a move just to make a move. Maybe some camp cuts will be interesting.


And you'll obviously also get more out of the running game, and should have an improved line.  



#31 makoman

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Posted 23 May 2022 - 11:38 AM

I sure hope this is not what the coaches in the passing game think. While Andrews had a great season last year and no doubt is the best weapon, the obsessive focus on him was a weakness for the Ravens' offense. Quite a few of Lamar's interceptions came while forcing the ball to Andrews, and both of the failed two-point conversions as well.

 

The running game is the base offense, but it has to be balanced with a productive passing game, and the key to that is spreading the ball around. The difference between those big name receivers on the FA market and Duvernay, Proche, and Wallace is that those guys get the ball. Lamar, the RBs and the OL all have lots of room for improvement in the passing area, and probably will, but let's hope we'll see a better designed aerial strategy.

Lamar forces it to Andrews sometimes for sure, Andrews is the security blanket, but at the same time he is an All Pro. That's the type of guy you should be forcing to cause he makes plays.

 

Andrews got 25.0% of the team's targets last year. Hollywood got 23.9. Kupp, Adams, Dionte Johnson, Tyreek Hill, and Justin Jefferson got 31.5%, 28.5%, 25.5%, 23.5%, and 27.6% of their team's targets. Did Stafford have an obsessive focus on Kupp? There's a fine line between forcing it and just wanting your best players to make plays. 



#32 Slidemaster

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Posted 23 May 2022 - 12:47 PM

So since he had the best stats among our WRs, you're basically saying our receiving corps sucks? That's comforting.


Bateman was hurt for much of the year. I thought he was better, but yes, I do think it is a relatively weak group. I don't know how much that matters on this team though.

#33 Mike in STL

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Posted 23 May 2022 - 01:15 PM

I don’t think they need a WR. Would be happy if they didn’t get one and give their guys a chance. Bateman will be a stud. Proche and Duvernay have A+ hands too.
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#34 Mackus

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Posted 23 May 2022 - 01:34 PM

I'd rather add a vet and end up cutting or trading him because the young guys all stepped up and stayed healthy than not add a vet and have to trade away a 3rd or 4th round pick to add someone because we found we still had a strong need during the season for whatever reason.

 

Not talking about a big chunk of cap like Fuller would be, just a modest signee.  Maybe you can still sign one of those guys off the street in September, but I'd do it now.  I really think DeSean Jackson is a good fit unless they think there are personality reasons to avoid him.


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#35 Slidemaster

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Posted 23 May 2022 - 02:56 PM

I wonder what it would cost to get DK Metcalf.

#36 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 23 May 2022 - 03:31 PM

The Ravens dont want or need Metcalf



#37 hallas

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Posted 23 May 2022 - 03:44 PM

I wonder what it would cost to get DK Metcalf.

 

Why do you want Metcalf?  He has 2 tricks, being able to outrun everyone on a go, and jump balls.  The first one, we got rid of Hollywood because that strength didn't play well on the Ravens, and the 2nd one, well it's redundant on a team with Mark Andrews.



#38 Slidemaster

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Posted 23 May 2022 - 04:15 PM


Why do you want Metcalf? He has 2 tricks, being able to outrun everyone on a go, and jump balls. The first one, we got rid of Hollywood because that strength didn't play well on the Ravens, and the 2nd one, well it's redundant on a team with Mark Andrews.


1. The only thing better than having one Mark Andrews type is having two. How often did he find himself double teamed with the ball being forced to him last year?

2. He's a physical freak of nature that is uncoverable by all but the tallest, longest CBs. When you can outrun everyone and you're 6+ inches and 60+ pounds bigger than Hollywood, that's at least worth inquiring about what kind of draft pick it would take to acquire.

#39 hallas

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Posted 23 May 2022 - 05:01 PM

1. The only thing better than having one Mark Andrews type is having two. How often did he find himself double teamed with the ball being forced to him last year?

2. He's a physical freak of nature that is uncoverable by all but the tallest, longest CBs. When you can outrun everyone and you're 6+ inches and 60+ pounds bigger than Hollywood, that's at least worth inquiring about what kind of draft pick it would take to acquire.


You know who else is a physical freak? Miles Boykin.

DK is a great receiver. But he is a more extreme version of Brown. Brown is a deep threat. Metcalf is better. But Brown is a better route runner in the mid range thanks to his superior change of direction ability. And for all of Metcalf's size, his catch rate is worse than Brown's, and his YAC is basically the same.

If we can't use Brown right then we sure as hell won't use Metcalf right.

#40 Slidemaster

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Posted 23 May 2022 - 05:24 PM

You know who else is a physical freak? Miles Boykin.

DK is a great receiver. But he is a more extreme version of Brown. Brown is a deep threat. Metcalf is better. But Brown is a better route runner in the mid range thanks to his superior change of direction ability. And for all of Metcalf's size, his catch rate is worse than Brown's, and his YAC is basically the same.

If we can't use Brown right then we sure as hell won't use Metcalf right.


First of all, please don't compare Metcalf and Boykin. Metcalf showed more in a single season than Boykin ever has.

Second, I think comparing Brown and Metcalf is deeply flawed. They have wildly different wing spans, verticals reach, and should be used differently. The fact that there is some overlap in the "they both run real fast" department should not indicate that they are even close to the same guy.

I think its no shock that big bodied Mark Andrews was by far Lamar's favorite and most reliable target, while Hollywood had trouble getting the ball in space or thriving in the short and medium game. You need to be able to thread needles and have great anticipation of direction changes to get balls to small receivers in traffic, and I don't think Lamar is at his best when he's doing that. A bigger receiver with a similar skillset but a wider catch radius is likely to be a much more attractive target.




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