517 replies to this topic

[Tranquil1]

Sorry, I don't understand the Harbaugh love at all. "Top tier coach"???? That has to be a joke, right? He is no better than three quarters of the current coaches in the league. His in-game decisions have cost the team a number of games, 2 of the last 3 being most glaring.

 

Remember, he was nothing more than a special teams coach before he came to Baltimore. No head coaching experience or coordinator experience. His organizational skills are very good. Personnel decisions? Average. A question one must ask is does Harbaugh elevate the talent he has or does he hinder it?  The most important decisions a coach can make is how he prepares for an opponent and how he adjusts and manages the game. Harbaugh lacks in that department and it should be obvious.

 

Admittedly, he started out great. Playoffs in each of the first 5 years culminated with a Super Bowl victory. Since then the last 8 years have brought only 2 post season wins. A "top tier coach" does better than that.

 

Bottom line, John Harbaugh has regressed as a head coach. He must believe that his tenure gives him carte blanche to make stupid decisions like he continually does. It will only get worse from here as his hubris doesn't allow for criticism.

 

Count me as one who looks forward to the change. Hire someone like Eric Bieniemy and start anew.

[BobPhelan]

How many teams would be lined up to hire John Harbough if he was fired tomorrow? The majority of them.

He’s much better behind the scenes than on the field but I feel like this is a case of “the grass is greener”. His teams don’t quit.

[Tranquil1]

Bob,

 

I have no doubt he'd be hired. In a heartbeat! That isn't the point. Most teams will hire someone who has gone to the Super Bowl. Heck, Billick could have a job tomorrow if he wanted one. Remember we found Harbaugh and I have no doubt that the current front office people would find a successful replacement. Most teams don't "quit". Case in point, the Detroit Lions. They have played hard every game for a rookie coach! Our players play hard despite Harbaugh not because of him.

[Mike in STL]

Going with the hot coordinator for a head coach is how you end up with Adam Gase, Matt Patricia, Jason Garrett who interviewed the same time as Harbaugh.

I was adamant about replacing Harbaugh during the last year or two of the Flacco era. But was quite impressed with flipping the offense mideseason to suit Jackson and making the run they did (7-1 I think) and they needed all seven to get in the playoffs. He won me back.

My lone gripe is this being allergic to overtime all of a sudden.

I think there is something to be said for stability at the position, even if every season isn’t a Championship one.

[bmore_ken]

The fact, that this team is still competitive after all the injuries is IMO a testimony to how good this staff is.

I would say there's been a fair amount of luck more than the staff. Blocked kicks, onside kicks, etc. 

[bmore_ken]

But don't you think that having GB start their first drive from their own 3 contributed to the TD the Ravens scored on their next drive?  

That's cool and all, but a fg right there is the difference in the game. You realize we lost by one point, right?

[bmore_ken]

Right so you should understand the decision to both try to limit his possesions and score as many points as we can.

Isn't our defense getting paid to play football? And he gave up three points in the 1st quarter

[Nigel Tufnel]

That's cool and all, but a fg right there is the difference in the game. You realize we lost by one point, right?

 

You don't seem to have understood my point at all, or else it's non sequitur day.

[Mackus]

That's cool and all, but a fg right there is the difference in the game. You realize we lost by one point, right?

 

The point is it's plausible that the Ravens had more points after 2 drives (7) than they would have had if they kick the FG (3 or 6 or 10).  Getting the ball on the GB45 after a 3-and-out influenced the next drive.  If GB starts on their own 25 after a Tucker touchback, who knows what happens.  Even if we assume the Ravens force the same 3-and-out, that's 20 or so yards of difference in field position (and maybe more if you don't get the ST penalty for 15 yards), so maybe we don't get a TD on that drive.

[Mackus]

Isn't our defense getting paid to play football?

 

Technically, yes, but many (most?) of the guys we started yesterday were on practice squads at some point this year.  

[Ravens2006]

For what it's worth, I wasn't batching just to batch yesterday. I don't think Harbaugh is an idiot, I just don't feel like he is a significant "plus" of any sort when it comes to difference making decisions IN-GAME, game plans, etc. when the stage gets bigger and bigger, especially late in the season or come January. The 2008 season was a magic carpet ride that nobody really expected. Since then, this is how Ravens seasons have either actually ended (like final game) or for all practical purposes ended (eliminated in final week or two).

2009 @IND AFC DIV - 36+ drop backs; 18 rush attempts

2010 AFC DIV @PIT - 30 pass & 5 sacks (35+ drop backs); 16 rush attempts; 14 point second half lead blown (two turnovers off pass attempts)

2011 AFC CHAM @NE - Blew 4th quarter lead (in fairness, only 4 points); and Evans / Cundiff let scores slip away from them...

2012 SB - WON!!!! But... very nearly blew a 22 point second half lead

2013 @CIN Week 17 - Flacco throws 50 passes, RBs run 13 times

2014 AFC DIV @NE - Blew two 14 point leads, once in second half

2015 - Flacco hurt; Trestman inept; Lost season

2016 @PIT Week 16 - Blew 10 point 4th quarter lead; Week 17 was then meaningless (though Flacco dropped back over 50 times, and the backs had 15 carries)

2017 CIN Week 17 - Blew lead in last minute; 4th-and-12 49 yard TD to Boyd

2018 SD AFC WC - Jackson drops back over 40 times to pass; RBs get 14 carries

2019 TEN AFC DIV - Jackson drops back over 60 times; RBs get 9 carries

2020 @BUF - QBs drop back over 40 times; RBs get 20 carries

2021... in progress / to be determined...

Now, on one side, there are a lot of playoff appearances in there of course. We all like that. I like that.

With that, you also see a pattern of results that include extremely pass heavy offensive game plans (with a squad that usually has a reputation for being tough and using the running game to ENABLE the pass, not vice-versa)... and also a good number of "blown" leads, either small and late, or big (double-digit) and second half to boot. Even the one title went from a 22 point laugher to sweating out a last minute goal line stand.

I've said many times that I think Buck's decision to use Ubaldo in TOR while Britton sat in the bullpen watching, with your entire season on the line and standing less than 90 feet from home plate, was the single worst managerial move I can ever recall seeing in my lifetime (nearly 50 years).

While nothing Harbaugh has done (for the most part) approaches that level of WTF-ness... there is a long line of puzzling / questionable decisions & game plans, and corresponding results that have ended seasons. All of which add up to, for me personally (and I've been here for a while now) the desire to see someone else get a chance to see what they can do. I have faith in DeCosta and company to continue finding enough talent to keep them in the hunt... let's just see if a different set of eyes can get over the next hump again. Yes, Harbaugh would get hired in minutes most likely when the season ended by another team looking to do better. And that's fine.

[Mike B]

Technically, yes, but many (most?) of the guys we started yesterday were on practice squads at some point this year.  

I think the defense has done a much better job recently.  Tackling is much better, opposition running game has been shut down.  Even yesterday they made the Packers earn everything.

Rodgers is great but they made him navigate down the field.  Even with guys named Stephen Jackson, Blake Countess, Kevon Seymour, and just added Tony Jefferson playing significant snaps.  Geno Stone was wearing the Green dot and special teams guy Anthony Levine played major snaps.  

The guy sitting next to me counted 8 guys playing on defense, who were or had spent time on the practice squad.

[Mike B]

Not trying to argue with anyone, but does anyone think this team is underachieving.  All the injuries and sicknesses have destroyed this season.  JMO.

[bmore_ken]

Not trying to argue with anyone, but does anyone think this team is underachieving.  All the injuries and sicknesses have destroyed this season.  JMO.

I think they're lucky to be where they are. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I think they're lucky to be where they are.

Thats starting to not be true. Have played a ton of close games. Things evening out. 8-6 now feels about right. 8-3 didnt.

[makoman]

Thats starting to not be true. Have played a ton of close games. Things evening out. 8-6 now feels about right. 8-3 didnt.

Yeah around 500 seems fair. Somehow they could be anywhere between 12-2 or 2-12. Almost every game has been a tossup in the 4th quarter.

[JoyinMudville]

Sorry, I don't understand the Harbaugh love at all. "Top tier coach"???? That has to be a joke, right? He is no better than three quarters of the current coaches in the league. His in-game decisions have cost the team a number of games, 2 of the last 3 being most glaring.

 

Remember, he was nothing more than a special teams coach before he came to Baltimore. No head coaching experience or coordinator experience. His organizational skills are very good. Personnel decisions? Average. A question one must ask is does Harbaugh elevate the talent he has or does he hinder it?  The most important decisions a coach can make is how he prepares for an opponent and how he adjusts and manages the game. Harbaugh lacks in that department and it should be obvious.

 

Admittedly, he started out great. Playoffs in each of the first 5 years culminated with a Super Bowl victory. Since then the last 8 years have brought only 2 post season wins. A "top tier coach" does better than that.

 

Bottom line, John Harbaugh has regressed as a head coach. He must believe that his tenure gives him carte blanche to make stupid decisions like he continually does. It will only get worse from here as his hubris doesn't allow for criticism.

 

Count me as one who looks forward to the change. Hire someone like Eric Bieniemy and start anew.

I agree

[Pedro Cerrano]

Yea count me in as someone who was disinterested in extending the game against Rodgers.

I was fine with both decisions to go for it in Pitt and yesterday. I did not like not kicking the FG early in the game.