5723 replies to this topic

[Slidemaster]

I mean, you realize the Jets hang up the phone laughing here, right? Maybe if they are given a window to extend Jackson, but frankly speaking, Gardner's shutdown capabilities make him perhaps more rare than Jackson (who has at least a dozen contemporaries at his level). Sprinkle in the fact Jackson's missed significant time in two of his first four seasons, and Gardner's under team control over the next several seasons, perhaps it's Baltimore who would be tossing picks New York's way...

I kid, but there's no way NYJ are including draft picks on a Gardner / Jackson swap.

That's cool then. I'd find another team.

[Slidemaster]

The media seems to operate under the assumption that there is no salary cap and unlimited money. Lamar should have got whatever he wanted fully guaranteed. Chiefs should have paid Tyreek Hill $30mil a year. Same for the Packers with Adams as well as Rodgers' $50 mil a year.

I was watching Undisputed (the debate show with Shannon Sharpe and Skip Bayless), and their opinion generally was that they don't like when a player quits on their team as Lamar appears to have (assuming he can play but is choosing not to), but they feel the Ravens quit on him first so they don't mind.

It is crazy to me that offering a guy 46+ million a year constitutes "quitting on him." I usually love Shannon Sharpe's takes, but that one is crazy to me.

[makoman]

Anyone know if the exclusive tag is the average of the top 5 cap hits, the top 5 APYs (i.e. total deal / years) or top-5 salaries for 2023 + prorated bonus or just the top-5 base salaries?

 

My guess is top-5 2023 salaries plus the prorated bonus.  But I can't find the exact wording anywhere.  All the articles I say just say top 5 highest paid players at the position for 2023.

 

For what it's worth, this guy projects the value to be $45.2M.

https://www.cbssport...-each-position/

According to this analysis it includes base+prorated bonus+roster bonus. They also projected $45M

 

https://overthecap.c...nce-is-a-virtue

[NewMarketSean]

Since they locked up Smith this week, have to wonder if they have been trying to negotiate with Lamar too.

[CantonJester]

I was watching Undisputed (the debate show with Shannon Sharpe and Skip Bayless), and their opinion generally was that they don't like when a player quits on their team as Lamar appears to have (assuming he can play but is choosing not to), but they feel the Ravens quit on him first so they don't mind.

It is crazy to me that offering a guy 46+ million a year constitutes "quitting on him." I usually love Shannon Sharpe's takes, but that one is crazy to me.

 

I can't buy into any narrative that suggests Lamar isn't giving his 100% to get back onto the field, ASAP. 

 

But then again, Skip Bayless is a hot take regurgitator, so nothing really surprises me in regards to him. 

[jamesdean]

I was watching Undisputed (the debate show with Shannon Sharpe and Skip Bayless), and their opinion generally was that they don't like when a player quits on their team as Lamar appears to have (assuming he can play but is choosing not to), but they feel the Ravens quit on him first so they don't mind.

It is crazy to me that offering a guy 46+ million a year constitutes "quitting on him." I usually love Shannon Sharpe's takes, but that one is crazy to me.

Of course Sharpe is going to say that.  He's a former player.  They all stick together when it comes to money.  If Lamar took less money overall than Murray, he'd never hear the end of it from the players.  As far as the consensus that he's holding out right now without calling it that, it does seem like more and more people are insinuating as much.  I still find it hard to believe he would resort to that at the expense of the team but if it's true and the Ravens somehow look at it that way also, he's as good as gone.  He might as well start packing now.  

[Mackus]

Since they locked up Smith this week, have to wonder if they have been trying to negotiate with Lamar too.

 

Lamar said he wouldn't negotiate during the season.  Perhaps they've pinged him to see if that's still his mindset, but I would guess that's been the extent of any in-season conversations.

[makoman]

I can't imagine he's quitting on the team. Nothing Lamar has ever shown suggests he'd do that.

 

This take from Jim Trotter is more believable:

https://twitter.com/...898232060747799

 

Summary:

Talked to another player who sprained PCL in week 1, it's still not right.

Even if he comes back he won't be the same this year. It's frustrating but nothing you can do.

Anyone who knows Lamar knows he will play if capable. Can't believe it has anything to do with the contract.

[bmore_ken]

I know you already prefaced that with saying he wouldn't take it. But if you were him, would you take that? Because putting myself in his shoes, why would I just throw out higher average contracts, that were signed last season?

You cannot just throw away deals and say that's not really his market. That's not exactly how it works. Maybe the Watson deal. As it was a terrible contract, given by a terrible franchise. But outside of that, every other deal signed, is what sets the market.

I agree. Like you I agree you can take Watson's contract out of the equation. But in my opinion you can't take Murray's contract out of the equation. As you said that's simply not how things work in the NFL

[bmore_ken]

I was watching Undisputed (the debate show with Shannon Sharpe and Skip Bayless), and their opinion generally was that they don't like when a player quits on their team as Lamar appears to have (assuming he can play but is choosing not to), but they feel the Ravens quit on him first so they don't mind.

It is crazy to me that offering a guy 46+ million a year constitutes "quitting on him." I usually love Shannon Sharpe's takes, but that one is crazy to me.

What evidence do you have that Lamar quit on the team?

[bmore_ken]

Since they locked up Smith this week, have to wonder if they have been trying to negotiate with Lamar too.

Didn't he say no negotiating once the season started?

[Slidemaster]

What evidence do you have that Lamar quit on the team?

I didn't say he did. I'm stating what those two said. They believe he's holding out using his injury as an excuse.

[mdrunning]

Sure is a different time than when Jack Youngblood played on a broken leg in the 1979 playoffs.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I don't agree that Lamar's value is lower after this season than it was before. He didn't have a strong year, but the market is constantly going up, his value probably rose less than the other top QBs, but it still rose. Time and waiting is against the teams in these cases, things go up and up so you wanna lock them in sooner if you wanna freeze their value. I would be surprised if he takes less than the Ravens offered in August. Also would be surprised if the Ravens reduce their offer to something less than their last.

Agreed but I think its important to Bischotti that he doesnt give the 2nd guaranteed contract and essentially make this a thing. His value didnt go down and I agrer the Ravens wont offer him less than their last offer.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I can't imagine he's quitting on the team. Nothing Lamar has ever shown suggests he'd do that.

This take from Jim Trotter is more believable:
https://twitter.com/...898232060747799

Summary:
Talked to another player who sprained PCL in week 1, it's still not right.
Even if he comes back he won't be the same this year. It's frustrating but nothing you can do.
Anyone who knows Lamar knows he will play if capable. Can't believe it has anything to do with the contract.

Yup. This was said in the ESPN article that was published back in early-mid Dec. Hes just not gonna be the same the rest of the year. With his style and as a playmaker the difference is that much more noticeable and impactful. I know tons of fans are gonna be critical and say give it a go, be tough, grit it out, etc. On one hand Lamar just staying in the pocket with a huge Joe Flacco 2016 style brace on gives us a better chance than Brown or Huntley at 100%. On the other hand thats just not who he is. He has never just sat in the pocket all game. You camt just flip a switch and flip your style in one week. Especially not practicing for so long.

[Mike in STL]

It's fair if you don't want to follow "It's just how it is." You probably trade him then. But I don't see QB salaries going down. I imagine Herbert and Burrow will show this offseason that the Murray deal isn't an outlier. I don't really think of Lamar as being in a lower level than those guys, except that I am starting to have durability concerns.

I would say when healthy, he could be right there with those guys. But two years in a row not finishing the season has to be working against him. It gives me pause. 

 

I don't agree that Lamar's value is lower after this season than it was before.  He didn't have a strong year, but the market is constantly going up, his value probably rose less than the other top QBs, but it still rose.  Time and waiting is against the teams in these cases, things go up and up so you wanna lock them in sooner if you wanna freeze their value.  I would be surprised if he takes less than the Ravens offered in August.  Also would be surprised if the Ravens reduce their offer to something less than their last.

If he's going to get more than the last offer, I'll let another team make that deal. 

[jamesdean]

I would say when healthy, he could be right there with those guys. But two years in a row not finishing the season has to be working against him. It gives me pause. 

 

If he's going to get more than the last offer, I'll let another team make that deal. 

I think the Ravens should offer him less than the package they presented to him last year.  He deserves less in my opinion and I don't care whether the overall price tag for elite quarterbacks has risen or not.  You may call that "lowballing him" but that's how I would approach it. He won't accept it and then it's time to move on.  The way I look at it, he's either going to accept a lower amount than he wants in order to stay in Baltimore or he's going elsewhere.  Simple as that. 

[Mike B]

There are really only 3 options regarding Lamar.

1.  The Ravens and LJ can agree to a long term deal.

2.  The Ravens can use the tag for next year.

3.  The Ravens can trade LJ in a sign and trade deal.

 

I still think #1 is the more likely, but I can see either 2 or 3 come in to play.  I think percentage wise it is as close as 40-30-30.

 

We have all used the phrase the best ability is availability, and unfortunately, Lamar has had long stretches of him not being available in the last 2 years.  I don't think him playing on a tag next year is a good idea, so if it was me, I would take one more run at signing him, but no way in hell I am giving him a Watson deal.  If that fails, then make the best deal possible.

[You Play to Win the Game]

There are really only 3 options regarding Lamar.

1.  The Ravens and LJ can agree to a long term deal.

2.  The Ravens can use the tag for next year.

3.  The Ravens can trade LJ in a sign and trade deal.

 

I still think #1 is the more likely, but I can see either 2 or 3 come in to play.  I think percentage wise it is as close as 40-30-30.

 

We have all used the phrase the best ability is availability, and unfortunately, Lamar has had long stretches of him not being available in the last 2 years.  I don't think him playing on a tag next year is a good idea, so if it was me, I would take one more run at signing him, but no way in hell I am giving him a Watson deal.  If that fails, then make the best deal possible.

I'd basically combine 2 and 3. If 2 is happening, he's gone too, it just means it took longer to make the deal so they used the tag as leverage and to buy time. No way does Lamar play on the tag IMO.

[Mike B]

I'd basically combine 2 and 3. If 2 is happening, he's gone too, it just means it took longer to make the deal so they used the tag as leverage and to buy time. No way does Lamar play on the tag IMO.

Fair enough.  I agree.