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Lamar - Extension?


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#1001 Slidemaster

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Posted 21 September 2022 - 06:29 PM

The issue isn't that he shouldn't get some credit for drafts during his time as AGM. The issue is that he shouldn't both get bonus credit for AGM. and also have blame for his poor drafts deflected because drafts are "decisions based on information provided by all the folks in football ops." At the end of the day, as anything less than GM, he should get significantly less than 50% credit for those drafts, and as GM, he should get significantly more than 50% credit. The buck stops with you when you're the GM. When Ozzie had poor drafts (and he did, from time to time. Breshad Perriman?) then those were primarily on Ozzie.


Absolutely.

#1002 Mackus

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Posted 21 September 2022 - 06:34 PM

The issue is that he shouldn't both get bonus credit for AGM. and also have blame for his poor drafts deflected because drafts are "decisions based on information provided by all the folks in football ops."  

 

Is anybody saying that?  Serious question, I haven't seen every post.

 

His poor picks since he's been the GM are on him.  But the argument against him being poor at picking (note the difference) definitely should include scouting and evaluating he did to help make the picks before the was the GM.

 

I also think the idea that the selections that he's made at O-line are noticeably worse than you'd expect is hard to support.  Its a handful of Rd 3 and Rd 4 guys.  He's found one passable starter amongst that group and still time for 2 more guys to become that.  Seems like he's more or less meeting expectations given the picks he's used.  Fair to question why he didn't use more or earlier picks on OL, but you can only draft one guy with each pick and there have been lots of needs.


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#1003 hallas

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Posted 22 September 2022 - 02:44 PM

Is anybody saying that? Serious question, I haven't seen every post.

His poor picks since he's been the GM are on him. But the argument against him being poor at picking (note the difference) definitely should include scouting and evaluating he did to help make the picks before the was the GM.

I also think the idea that the selections that he's made at O-line are noticeably worse than you'd expect is hard to support. Its a handful of Rd 3 and Rd 4 guys. He's found one passable starter amongst that group and still time for 2 more guys to become that. Seems like he's more or less meeting expectations given the picks he's used. Fair to question why he didn't use more or earlier picks on OL, but you can only draft one guy with each pick and there have been lots of needs.


I sure got that sense from multiple people, though I suppose it's possible I'm misconstruing their comments.

#1004 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 25 September 2022 - 06:36 PM

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#1005 Biggsy

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Posted 25 September 2022 - 07:01 PM

If he keeps this level of play up all season, Ravens are going to find themselves on another Flacco situation.

#1006 The Epic

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Posted 25 September 2022 - 07:14 PM

People are just waiting for the first 1 TD, 2 INT game and will be like, "see? He doesn't deserve it!" 

 

He has more TDs -himself- than the rest of the AFC North QBs -combined-.


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#1007 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 25 September 2022 - 07:34 PM

People are just waiting for the first 1 TD, 2 INT game and will be like, "see? He doesn't deserve it!"

He has more TDs -himself- than the rest of the AFC North QBs -combined-.

Of course. He will slow down but the guy despite his flaws is a dynamic player. He is a game changer. I think its best to wait. Id still be trying to not have to guaruntee the whole deal. If thats what happens with the next guys up. Herbert, Burrow, etc then you pay the piper.

#1008 Slidemaster

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Posted 25 September 2022 - 08:07 PM

I posted this in the game thread as well, but it bears repeating here.

Lamar is the best quarterback ever to wear a Ravens jersey, and there is not a more dynamic playmaker in the league than him. I'm still not comfortable giving him 60 million a year for 5 or 6 years fully guaranteed. That would set the bar for all quarterbacks to get fully guaranteed deals, and the market would go absolutely sideways.

With that said, I think they will probably buckle to his demands and give it to him. At that point, he will need to be a top three MVP player every year of his deal to justify that contract, or they will be miserably bad. They already cannot build an offensive line or defense with a cap friendly QB contract. Trying to envision them doing that on a team with him eating 20% of the cap is practically impossible.

#1009 bmore_ken

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Posted 25 September 2022 - 08:31 PM

I posted this in the game thread as well, but it bears repeating here.

Lamar is the best quarterback ever to wear a Ravens jersey, and there is not a more dynamic playmaker in the league than him. I'm still not comfortable giving him 60 million a year for 5 or 6 years fully guaranteed. That would set the bar for all quarterbacks to get fully guaranteed deals, and the market would go absolutely sideways.

With that said, I think they will probably buckle to his demands and give it to him. At that point, he will need to be a top three MVP player every year of his deal to justify that contract, or they will be miserably bad. They already cannot build an offensive line or defense with a cap friendly QB contract. Trying to envision them doing that on a team with him eating 20% of the cap is practically impossible.

Sucks to be you, huh?  :mrgreen:



#1010 bmore_ken

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Posted 25 September 2022 - 08:32 PM

If he keeps this level of play up all season, Ravens are going to find themselves on another Flacco situation.

I think they already are. 



#1011 Slidemaster

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Posted 25 September 2022 - 08:37 PM

Sucks to be you, huh? :mrgreen:


Why would it suck to be me? It isn't my money.

#1012 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 25 September 2022 - 08:48 PM

Btw even though I’m back fully on the sign Lamar train, our bet is still on Mack, I’m a man of my word and pray I lose.

#1013 cprenegade

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Posted 25 September 2022 - 09:29 PM

You know to take the other side, Lamar Jackson should be watching the SF-Denver game.  Russell Wilson is getting booed quite loudly by the Denver fans.  

 

Is an extra 30-50 mil guaranteed money enough to make you want to go to another environment?  Baltimore fans have been invested with Lamar since his rookie season playoff run.  They remember all the great plays.  If you go to another team, they don't care about any of that stuff that happened in Baltimore.  All you are to them is a high priced superstar supposed to save the franchise.  If you don't get off to the best kind of start, be prepared.  


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#1014 bmore_ken

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Posted 25 September 2022 - 09:41 PM

Why would it suck to be me? It isn't my money.

You post like it is. 



#1015 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 25 September 2022 - 10:31 PM

Btw even though I’m back fully on the sign Lamar train, our bet is still on Mack, I’m a man of my word and pray I lose.

What was the bet



#1016 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 25 September 2022 - 11:09 PM


What was the bet

Tldr… when Lamar signs his contract, if he takes the Ravens to an AFC Championship game during the initial agreed upon term, I pay for the first round at the next BSL happy hour.

#1017 CantonJester

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Posted 25 September 2022 - 11:22 PM

You know to take the other side, Lamar Jackson should be watching the SF-Denver game.  Russell Wilson is getting booed quite loudly by the Denver fans.  

 

Is an extra 30-50 mil guaranteed money enough to make you want to go to another environment?  Baltimore fans have been invested with Lamar since his rookie season playoff run.  They remember all the great plays.  If you go to another team, they don't care about any of that stuff that happened in Baltimore.  All you are to them is a high priced superstar supposed to save the franchise.  If you don't get off to the best kind of start, be prepared.  

 

 

Your plea is common sense, when your subject is a guy who refused to hire an agent?


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#1018 hallas

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Posted 25 September 2022 - 11:28 PM

I posted this in the game thread as well, but it bears repeating here.

Lamar is the best quarterback ever to wear a Ravens jersey, and there is not a more dynamic playmaker in the league than him. I'm still not comfortable giving him 60 million a year for 5 or 6 years fully guaranteed. That would set the bar for all quarterbacks to get fully guaranteed deals, and the market would go absolutely sideways.

With that said, I think they will probably buckle to his demands and give it to him. At that point, he will need to be a top three MVP player every year of his deal to justify that contract, or they will be miserably bad. They already cannot build an offensive line or defense with a cap friendly QB contract. Trying to envision them doing that on a team with him eating 20% of the cap is practically impossible.


 

if we make it to the super bowl this year, lose, and Lamar asks for 6/290 guaranteed how are you feeling about the extension?



#1019 cprenegade

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Posted 25 September 2022 - 11:36 PM


 

if we make it to the super bowl this year, lose, and Lamar asks for 6/290 guaranteed how are you feeling about the extension?

 

You know, from my standpoint it might make me go the other way.  If the Ravens get to the SB on the 5th year of the Lamar Jackson contract, from a business point of view I consider that a huge return on my investment.  The Raven's history of sustaining success after a SB is not so good.  Maybe you take the good, and move on for the next chapter.  The Ravens decisions on QBs after getting to a SB are not that good.  Dilfer thrown away for.....Elvis Gerbac.  (eeewww)    Flacco, give him a record contract.  Maybe this time say thank you, but no to all of that money.  



#1020 bmore_ken

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Posted 25 September 2022 - 11:41 PM


You know, from my standpoint it might make me go the other way. If the Ravens get to the SB on the 5th year of the Lamar Jackson contract, from a business point of view I consider that a huge return on my investment. The Raven's history of sustaining success after a SB is not so good. Maybe you take the good, and move on for the next chapter. The Ravens decisions on QBs after getting to a SB are not that good. Dilfer thrown away for.....Elvis Gerbac. (eeewww) Flacco, give him a record contract. Maybe this time say thank you, but no to all of that money.


In a normal world that's a reasonable stance. However, comparing Lamar to Flacco and Dilfer is plain silly.




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