599 replies to this topic

[Mackus]

Im far from a Baker fan but tough spot for him. Contract year and hes in a can't win position with this injury. If he plays and stinks hes gonna get criticized. If he sits, then hes injury proned and unavailable and gets criticized for that.

 

Not exactly a contract year.  He's already had his 5th year option picked up, which is fully guaranteed.  Possible it has offset clauses and Cleveland could cut him but only have to pay him the difference between the $18.8M option (Lamar's is $23.1M because he's made a Pro Bowl) and whatever he gets paid by whomever signs him, but as the #1 overall pick I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't have any offset money in which case the only way they don't pay all the money is if they can trade him.

[Ravens2006]

Neither team ran the ball particularly well last night. But while I blast Harbs and Roman often for the whacky run/pass imbalances, they continued to mix in the run even though it wasn't exactly gashing the Browns defense. Credit given!

The Browns played it like one of those Ravens games I often gripe about. I have to wonder if a little more dedication to feeding Hunt and Chubb wouldn't have changed the complexion a little bit.

Also for what it's worth, watching live I got the impression that Wink was leaving safeties back more, and I feel like we saw more two deep than we've seen in a while. Maybe that's just bad perception, I dunno. It sure felt like it helped keep Baker from taking some more deep shots than he otherwise would have. And he wasn't very accurate on the shorter / short out stuff.

The INT that should have been, except Clark had oven mitts on apparently... doesn't happen if Clark isn't playing deep. Play deep, read and react, cover, and catch the mistakes.

[Ravens2006]

And Jerome Bogar and company were terrible last night. Just terrible.

[Slidemaster]

Zero

Depends on how unhappy he is. There were rumblings there might be a Carroll/Wilson divorce this offseason. If that happens, you can bet Pitt and Cleveland would be a player.

Is it likely? No, but it's certainly not impossible.

[Mackus]

Oweh seemed to be all over the place, much more involved than in several recent weeks.  Bowser also flashed a ton just like last week against Chicago. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Oweh seemed to be all over the place, much more involved than in several recent weeks. Bowser also flashed a ton just like last week against Chicago.

Front 7 played a very good game. Without Campbell. Curious if Campbell wants to keep playing and if we are interested in resigning him. Hes graded out very well but at the same time hes a guy with 92.5 career sacks but only 4.5 in 22 games in BMore.

[Bmore Irish]

Good to see them get the win despite a horrible game from Lamar. Somehow he still makes just enough plays, and the defense stepped up all game long.

 

I think the offense's slow starts and inability to finish drives will be their downfall in the coming weeks though. But if they win in Pittsburgh next week, they're at least set up to back into the playoffs if things really go down hill.

[CMU82]

From a knowledgeable friend, who stated that NFL teams were 0-52 when throwing four or more INTs in one game.  The Browns are no longer the Clowns, but other than the Lions, who else would have lost a game like that?

[Mackus]

They showed that stat during the end of the game last night but it feels like it must be wrong.  Or maybe it was only describing prime time games or the past 10 or 20 years or something like that.  I find it hard to believe that only 52 times in NFL history has a team thrown 4 picks and that none of those teams had won the game before.

[makoman]

I thought I saw that the 0-52 was since 2015 or 2014 or something like that.

[bmore_ken]

Keenum in that offense with that run game and play action style is a fine backup, and they’re paying him more than most backups, one of the highest paid. My guess is Baker is insisting on playing through it but he’s not healthy. He’s only hurting himself. That said, Cleveland would be foolish to move on from him long term without a better option in house. This kind of season from Mayfield could lead to a scenario where Cleveland is able to retain him at a much shorter term and cheaper cost.

I don't see that happening. Despite what he's going through now, he's still a guy that averages about 25 TD passes a year and really has only had one(what I would consider) bad year. It's more likely he gets a better offer from another team than Cleveland getting him to sign on the cheap. I can think of five teams off the top of my head that would probably love to have him. 

[You Play to Win the Game]

The last QB to win a 4 INT game was Dalton vs. Baltimore.

[jamesdean]

I kept looking at the stats and decided to pass on watching the recording.  I'll just watch the condensed highlights/lowlights on the NFL channel via Youtube.  Fifteen minutes of ugliness is a lot more tolerable. 

[You Play to Win the Game]

It’s not the same thing but the fact that the best teams this season feature QB’s at the top of the INT’s list kind of reminds me of the three true outcome era in baseball. Makes me wonder if the game is changing for the worse with all the salary spikes.

[Slidemaster]

It’s not the same thing but the fact that the best teams this season feature QB’s at the top of the INT’s list kind of reminds me of the three true outcome era in baseball. Makes me wonder if the game is changing for the worse with all the salary spikes.

I wonder if that correlates also with pass attempts. Might be an indicator that teams that are passing more are more successful in today's NFL.

[hallas]

I wonder if that correlates also with pass attempts. Might be an indicator that teams that are passing more are more successful in today's NFL.

GIDP is a better analogy. It sucks but only good players lead the league in it because they accrue the PAs to get the opportunity to ground into double plays.

[Ravens2006]

Not sure why I can get this pretty friggin' clear image of the ball hitting the ground before he's gained control... using a laptop and NFL GamePass film... in all of about 20 seconds... but the NFL can't get this same still frame to the referee on the field...

 

 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Not sure why I can get this pretty friggin' clear image of the ball hitting the ground before he's gained control... using a laptop and NFL GamePass film... in all of about 20 seconds... but the NFL can't get this same still frame to the referee on the field...

The problem is these refs just guessed but the conclusive evidence BS makes that orginal call where they just guessed so important. It was conclusive anyway btw but lets say it was less conclusive. Why are we relying on needing overwhelming evidence to overturn a guess by the refs vs looking at the video and saying Im 90% sure it wasnt a catch. Makes no sense.

[Ravens2006]

The problem is these refs just guessed but the conclusive evidence BS makes that orginal call where they just guessed so important. It was conclusive anyway btw but lets say it was less conclusive. Why are we relying on needing overwhelming evidence to overturn a guess by the refs vs looking at the video and saying Im 90% sure it wasnt a catch. Makes no sense.

 

Yeah, overhwelming evidence to overturn something that they guessed at to begin with is sorta overkill (I mean really, NOBODY knew for sure if he had control live).  One ref put his arms up somewhat quickly, but there was definitely a "think about it" delay.

 

Maybe because the review for a close call is automatic on a TD, it's better to err on the side of calling it a TD and then taking a look on replay, so a team doesn't have to waste a timeout.  But then they should have some additional leeway to overturn in that case. 

 

The league would be better off if they just allowed upstairs video review to take a look at plays in real-time and have the authority to buzz the head ref for a brief pause in the action.  Bogar stared at that thing for a long time, over and over.  Even in the stadium, you could see his facial expressions on the jumbotron while he was watching it... I knew he was going to go the "stands as called" route when he walked away.  His face basically said "Man, this is close. I think it hits the ground but I don't know 100% for sure, so I gotta let it stand".  And even in the stadium, they're showing slow mo but not "freeze framing" on the key moment.  I'm 100% sure Bogar NEVER got a still shot of the picture I posted... which came from the NBC broadcast... which is part of what the review makes available.  THAT is another big problem.  People don't know how to use the video to get the right shot sometimes.  

 

Same thing happened in a game in Cleveland years ago, the Browns scored a TD on a similar catch / trap (like Andrews diving forward TD but much less secure) where you could easily slo-mo and pause the GamePass video to clearly show the ball hitting the ground first between his hands.  Or the '08 season playoff game at TEN, you could GamePass slo-mo / pause a very clear shot of Chris Johnson being tackled, knee down in the endzone, ball still not OUT of the endzone, should have been a safety but they never saw THAT picture.

 

We shouldn't be able to find a conclusive picture using NFL GamePass video with a minute or less of effort... but the league, with cameras all over the place and a command post / super powered video processing center broadcast crew on site.  Has to be a way to give the officials making critical calls the BEST possible pictures, and do it fast.

 

I know I'm totally overkilling this... but the league's bad replay system is a never-ending pet peeve / obsession of mine... 

[Mackus]

Yeah, overhwelming evidence to overturn something that they guessed at to begin with is sorta overkill (I mean really, NOBODY knew for sure if he had control live).  One ref put his arms up somewhat quickly, but there was definitely a "think about it" delay.

 

This is an interesting thought.  What if the refs didn't HAVE to make a call?  They make the calls like normal most of the time.  But in situations like this where they aren't sure and nobody had a clear view, they can either just make no call and go directly to replay to decide (where the replay official then picks what seems most likely if it isn't clear) or they make a call but announce that it's subject to lesser review standards and then a challenge could overturn the call with less than indisputable video.  Like the difference between criminal and civil courts, some calls could be overturned based on lesser evidence.

 

If the refs think they had a good view and made an honest call, then replay still needs to be clear to overturn.

 

There would still be some cracks.  Sometimes even the video will be hard to gauge what you think is 51% likely.  But this would eliminate the "lets call it a TD/turnover on the field because we know they'll review it" bias.