59 replies to this topic

[PrimeTime]

I don't think sending constant pressure is the answer but disguising looks, dropping guys out and bringing guys from different angles will be key. For as good as Herbert has been so far, he's still young and the best way to get a young guy off his game is to throw a bunch of different looks at him.

I would crowd the LOS from time to time as well. Basically, do everything under the sun to leave Herbert guessing as to which 4 are coming at him.

Chargers QB Justin Herbert on Ravens defense: "It was a lot of looks that we didn’t see on film and stuff they constructed for us. They did a great job at disguising their looks, bringing pressure from one way and hiding from another. It was looks they hadn’t shown all season."

[Slidemaster]

Chargers QB Justin Herbert on Ravens defense: "It was a lot of looks that we didn’t see on film and stuff they constructed for us. They did a great job at disguising their looks, bringing pressure from one way and hiding from another. It was looks they hadn’t shown all season."

It's encouraging that they're willing and able to adjust like that.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Chargers QB Justin Herbert on Ravens defense: "It was a lot of looks that we didn’t see on film and stuff they constructed for us. They did a great job at disguising their looks, bringing pressure from one way and hiding from another. It was looks they hadn’t shown all season."

This was a coaching win. We are quick to put the blame on coaches when we lose. Need to do the opposite at times when we win. Wink made the right adjustments and gameplaned well for LA. Roman got the running game back on track in a big way. If there is one thing this team has shown under these coordinators is they can adapt and counter as the year progresses.

[Biggsy]

It's encouraging that they're willing and able to adjust like that.

It's why I ignore the bad in-the-moment takes on Wink. Dude is a legit top DC. You don't consistently have a top 10 defense by accident or dumb luck. He has his bad moments and gets torched on them. But he also has been one of the best at making in season and in game adjustments. Today was one of those adjustments. He took his black eye last week. This week he came out and shut down one of the better offenses.

[hallas]

This was a coaching win. We are quick to put the blame on coaches when we lose. Need to do the opposite at times when we win. Wink made the right adjustments and gameplaned well for LA. Roman got the running game back on track in a big way. If there is one thing this team has shown under these coordinators is they can adapt and counter as the year progresses.

I think Wink has improved immensely this year in terms of game planning for the opponent. He dialed down blitzes against KC and was able to confuse a rookie QB into a rough day. It's a bit unfortunate that we just don't have the personnel to be a great defensive team all the time, but he's trying his hardest to push all the right buttons.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I think Wink has improved immensely this year in terms of game planning for the opponent. He dialed down blitzes against KC and was able to confuse a rookie QB into a rough day. It's a bit unfortunate that we just don't have the personnel to be a great defensive team all the time, but he's trying his hardest to push all the right buttons.

 

They gave up 340+ yards through the air in the Chiefs game. I think it's cute how everyone points to him not blitzing as the reason the Ravens won that game. The defense had nothing to do with winning that game outside of Oweh's beast play (which had nothing to do with Wink) at the end. Lamar won them that game.

 

And people confuse talent and coaching all the time. It's laughable to me to suggest Wink is a legit top DC. Must be watching a different product over the past few years. They're soft, can't tackle, and still get thrown on despite the organization continually dumping resources into the secondary.

[Slidemaster]

They gave up 340+ yards through the air in the Chiefs game. I think it's cute how everyone points to him not blitzing as the reason the Ravens won that game. The defense had nothing to do with winning that game outside of Oweh's beast play (which had nothing to do with Wink) at the end. Lamar won them that game.

And people confuse talent and coaching all the time. It's laughable to me to suggest Wink is a legit top DC. Must be watching a different product over the past few years. They're soft, can't tackle, and still get thrown on despite the organization continually dumping resources into the secondary.

Talent doesn't magically make a defense good. There is no magic defensive position (like QB in an offense, for example), that can will a defense to be good. Look at Washington. What do they have...7 first round picks in their front 7 that has been one of the worst units in the game this year?

There's a reason great defensive coaches always have quality defenses. It's more about scheme, planning, and analysis than sheer talent.

I'm not saying Wink is a genius, but when a guy routinely has a better than average unit, he's doing something right.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Honestly, I'm pretty dug in here so I appreciate the push back but I'm just being honest, this is how I feel about the guy and I don't see that changing.

 

What I will say is, there's at least a decent chance I just haven't adjusted my expectations from the Ravens defenses we grew up with. Even the ones through Chuck Pagano. 

 

The Ravens have had good ranking defenses under Wink, but I wouldn't call them good defenses, But again, I may be the one who is being unreasonable here based on just how bad defense are these days.

[Biggsy]

They gave up 340+ yards through the air in the Chiefs game. I think it's cute how everyone points to him not blitzing as the reason the Ravens won that game. The defense had nothing to do with winning that game outside of Oweh's beast play (which had nothing to do with Wink) at the end. Lamar won them that game.

And people confuse talent and coaching all the time. It's laughable to me to suggest Wink is a legit top DC. Must be watching a different product over the past few years. They're soft, can't tackle, and still get thrown on despite the organization continually dumping resources into the secondary.

Were you not watching the 9th best defense last year, or the best defense the year before, and 7th best in DVOA ever that year? I mean, reading your posts you'd think Wink was out there leading defenses that were consistently, completely inept. You'd have people thinking Wink's defense were consistently in the bottom 10 in the NFL instead of the top 10 almost every single year. I just don't get it.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Wink's defenses feast on bad teams and are mediocre against competent offenses. Or, you know, Carson Wentz. But sure, let me look at some rankings and crown his ass.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I probably mostly miss Ed Reed and Ray Lewis too much. Defenses that knew how to close.

[Biggsy]

Wink's defenses feast on bad teams and are mediocre against competent offenses. Or, you know, Carson Wentz. But sure, let me look at some rankings and crown his ass.

Right. Carson Wentz throwing for 400 yards completely trumps everything his defenses have done for 2 complete years. But I'm the one being illogical here. Who cares that his defenses have dominated a majority of the time over 2 seasons, and have consistently been in the top 10 of the league. Carson Wentz once had a good game against them.

[Biggsy]

I probably mostly miss Ed Reed and Ray Lewis too much. Defenses that knew how to close.

That's fair. I loved Pagano. Probably my favorite DC we've ever had. And Reed is one of my favorite Ravens of all time. But Wink hasn't had the advantage of having the best MLB and FS of all time, and a HOF edge rusher on his team. He's had to dominate using Humphrey, Campbell, and a bunch of really good players instead.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Hey you two keep it in one thread.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Hey you two keep it in one thread.

I mean, I'm good. I explained myself thoroughly, but he wants to jump on an outlier performance and try and come and get it after being quiet as hell last week when I was coming after the D. It's weak sauce and not in good faith, then he paints me as overreacting to Carson Wentz, lol. This is the only season I've ever legit called out Wink, and this dude thinks he's the fan police. Moving on from this topic. If people don't want strong takes, don't make a sports message board for fanatics.

[Biggsy]

I'm done discussing this with you. I've more than explained myself, so you seriously need to get over yourself.

I typically try and gracefully bow out of debates when I realize how stupid I sound too. 😉 🤣


But seriously, you haven't explained anything. All you've said is you think he's bad because Carson Wentz threw for a lot of yards, mainly to his RB once. And the defense has somehow underachieved under him, despite ranking number 1, and number 9 in defensive DVOA the past two seasons. But I guess actual stats mean nothing against the Carson Wentz argument and your opinion. Only one of us is getting an attitude about it, maybe that's the one who needs to ",get over himself."

[bmore_ken]

This was a coaching win. We are quick to put the blame on coaches when we lose. Need to do the opposite at times when we win. Wink made the right adjustments and gameplaned well for LA. Roman got the running game back on track in a big way. If there is one thing this team has shown under these coordinators is they can adapt and counter as the year progresses.

Generally with defense I blame the players more than Martindale's coaching. Offense is a different story when the coaching plan is an attempt to turn Jackson into Brady.

[PrimeTime]

Honestly, I'm pretty dug in here so I appreciate the push back but I'm just being honest, this is how I feel about the guy and I don't see that changing.

What I will say is, there's at least a decent chance I just haven't adjusted my expectations from the Ravens defenses we grew up with. Even the ones through Chuck Pagano.

The Ravens have had good ranking defenses under Wink, but I wouldn't call them good defenses, But again, I may be the one who is being unreasonable here based on just how bad defense are these days.

I hear ya and you have some valid points. I long for those suffocating defenses of seasons gone by but that was a combination of having Hall of Fame caliber players at every level of the defense and how offenses played. To have Ray Lewis and Ed Reed play together for a decade is unreal. Add in Haloti Ngata, Sizzle and other good players along the way and that was a special run.

Besides the talent drop off, which was inevitable, offenses have evolved. More shotgun and pistol, spread looks, being aggressive on 4th downs, etc. Add to that the way the game is officiated now with illegal contact and PI being called tightly in most games and ticky-tack roughing the passer calls and it's very treacherous to play defense in 2021.

Just think about how many roughing the passer calls would've gone against the 2000 Ravens....

[jamesdean]

I hear ya and you have some valid points. I long for those suffocating defenses of seasons gone by but that was a combination of having Hall of Fame caliber players at every level of the defense and how offenses played. To have Ray Lewis and Ed Reed play together for a decade is unreal. Add in Haloti Ngata, Sizzle and other good players along the way and that was a special run.

Besides the talent drop off, which was inevitable, offenses have evolved. More shotgun and pistol, spread looks, being aggressive on 4th downs, etc. Add to that the way the game is officiated now with illegal contact and PI being called tightly in most games and ticky-tack roughing the passer calls and it's very treacherous to play defense in 2021.

Just think about how many roughing the passer calls would've gone against the 2000 Ravens....

Especially Siragusa's planting of Rich Gannon in the AFC championship game.  Every time I see it, I still can't believe no flag was thrown.  

[Biggsy]

Generally with defense I blame the players more than Martindale's coaching. Offense is a different story when the coaching plan is an attempt to turn Jackson into Brady.

For the most part I agree. But as good as Wink has been, he is 100% to blame at times. Sometimes he blitzes way too much when he shouldn't. Sometimes teams figure his gameplan out and counter it like Detroit did with the swing passes, and Wink doesn't adjust. He's not blameless. I don't think he's the best DC out there. But I do believe he's a top 10 DC. Like I said, you don't consistently post top 10 defenses every season by pure dumb luck.