81 replies to this topic

[Nigel Tufnel]

Even under PA, the O's shelled out the money for one recent tier 1 free agent.  Unfortunately, his name was Chris Davis.

[Old Man]

Even under PA, the O's shelled out the money for one recent tier 1 free agent.  Unfortunately, his name was Chris Davis.

Sorry.

 

Orioles traded to the Rangers for Hunter and Davis.

 

Albert Belle goes back a long way, but his salary was the highest FA signed at the time.

[Mackus]

Sorry.

Orioles traded to the Rangers for Hunter and Davis.

Albert Belle goes back a long way, but his salary was the highest FA signed at the time.

They (re)signed Chris Davis as a free agent in 2016.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I'm going to wait to pass judgement on Elias's rebuilding until I see what the prospects drafted, acquired, and/or developed under his watch turn into.

So it's the O's, with their track record, not the Ravens with their's, who deserve the benefit of the doubt?

[Nigel Tufnel]

It does pretty much suck that the O's reward for one entire season of tanking ended up being Kjerstad, who the O's haven't even seen taking batting practice since the draft.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

So it's the O's, with their track record, not the Ravens with their's, who deserve the benefit of the doubt?

Lol.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I just don't see why some are so confident that process exists here.

I hope dearly that it's true, I just will need to see it to believe it.

Losing a full year and more of public development certainly hurts in terms of convincing fans and getting more buy-in. That's unfortunate.

I am confident but Ill admit there isn't much to point at to back it up. Then again there has only been 1 MiL season under this regime and Elias didnt have a number of the people he wanted in place for that season. I like the approach the regime is taking and some of the people they've brought into the organization with regards to player development but we'll have to wait a few more years to see if my confidence ia rewarded.

[Mackus]

It does pretty much suck that the O's reward for one entire season of tanking ended up being Kjerstad, who the O's haven't even seen taking batting practice since the draft.

Kjerstad plus the two overslot guys in the 4th and 5th (unfortunately Baumler has already had Tommy John).

But yes, tanking is not worth it in MLB.

[weird-O]

Even under PA, the O's shelled out the money for one recent tier 1 free agent.  Unfortunately, his name was Chris Davis.

Although I would argue Davis's qualifications to be considered a Tier 1 FA, let's go with the premise that he was. That wasn't really an acquisition of a premium FA. It was the retention of one. When your club's history of developing impact players is less than a tick mark over zero, there's just no way to win a championship, when your dalliance in the top tier FA market consists of 1 player over the course of nearly 20 years.

 

I welcome any corrections to my comment. But if memory serves, prior to retaining Davis, the last impact FA the O's signed was Tejada in the winter of 2003.  

[weird-O]

I think you have to separate the Angelos.

 

Just because their last name is the same, mean, they will act like their daddy.

 

There were never into the international market, and yet now they are.

 

Will they have deep pockets for a tier 1 FA, most likely not.

 

But, some solid tier 2, would help fill in the gaps.

Have you not been paying attention to how they're slashing expenses all over the place? They're the laughing stock of the sport. They would qualify for that title simply by asking Mancini to accept deferred payments on his arbitration pay raise. To say they're unlikely to spend big in the future, is a huge understatement. They're starting to look like they're unwilling to pay above league minimum for any player. Their track record leads one to believe that we may not be too far away from actually longing for the days when the team spent at the level of their father.   

[Slidemaster]

Its not going to stall if the player development and scouting is on point. People need to stop be consumed by the individual names and hopefully start to appreciate the process that can churn out ML players.

That's exactly what I said. If the player development turns out to be only fair rather than excellent, they will be stuck in perpetual mediocrity. Weird-O is right - they will never be true players in FA. They will never pay stars their money, and stars don't want to come here. The only chance is to draft multiple impact players per year as Tampa seems to. Otherwise this will be the norm.

[Slidemaster]

So it's the O's, with their track record, not the Ravens with their's, who deserve the benefit of the doubt?

I have always been confident in the Ravens' ability to draft and find talent. I have not been confident in their ability to win in the playoffs.

With that said my standards for both framchises are far different. I have the highest possible expectations of the Ravens. I would be happy if the Orioles got to leave the kids table.

[BobPhelan]

Its not going to stall if the player development and scouting is on point. People need to stop be consumed by the individual names and hopefully start to appreciate the process that can churn out ML players.

That’s a bingo.

[Mike B]

That’s a bingo.

It is a bingo, if the process, yields the talent pipeline, that Elias has promised.    When you tank, 2-4 seasons, the return has to be significant.  I am not saying, that it is a failure if we do not win a World Series, because being the ultimate winner is tough to achieve, but the return for being histortically awful for what looks to be a 5 year period, has to be more than playoff contention.

[Old Man]

They (re)signed Chris Davis as a free agent in 2016.

True, they did

 

But if you resign your own guy, is it really hitting the free agent market?

[Mike B]

True, they did

 

But if you resign your own guy, is it really hitting the free agent market?

The market really hit them on this signing.

[weird-O]

True, they did

 

But if you resign your own guy, is it really hitting the free agent market?

Aside from vague, and still unsubstantiated rumors that the Tigers were interested in Davis, no, they didn't hit the market, unless hitting the market includes bidding against yourself. 

[Old Man]

Aside from vague, and still unsubstantiated rumors that the Tigers were interested in Davis, no, they didn't hit the market, unless hitting the market includes bidding against yourself. 

That was as stupid move as I have ever seen an organization do, and the fault is with King Peter on that one.

 

Generically, I dont believe any resigning of your own guy, is really a FA hire. At least, my own perspective.

[Mackus]

I agree with the theory that dude has put forth that the Orioles didn't really bid against themselves, at least not substantially more than a small amount to get the deal done. Rather they restructured the offer so that on the surface it seemed much bigger (for Davis and Boras' sake) by deferring a nearly unprecedented amount of money, this kept the value of the contract the same even if the raw dollar figures were much higher. I forget the reports from the time but 6/$144M seems to stick in my memory, was that the original Orioles offer or just a deal that equates to the same contract Davis actually got (they are nearly identical NPV)?

Also 98% of Orioles fans everywhere would've signed Davis to say a straight 5/$115M deal. People are gonna have to show me posts from 2016 to get me to believe they would've turned something like that down (I know there are a few, but not many). Is it really dramatically different that he got 7/$161M with a ton deferred? So much so that your idea was smart and the Orioles idea is the stupidest thing in the history of baseball? Yes it's a larger scale, no doubt, but Davis went south so fast that no matter what the contract was it'd be laughed about as one of the worst in baseball history even if it was a bargain when he signed it. The major difference between Pablo Sandoval and Chris Davis is not the extra 50% or so on the contract, but it's the impact that the contract had on the franchise. The Red Sox shrugged it off as nearly no issue at all. The Orioles have spiraled downwards and are cutting costs at every turn.

[dude]

Mackus is correct and what the hell are we going to do when Davis isn't here to talk about.