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ESPN: Tag or goodbye? Ravens face potential turnover at pass-rusher


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#21 Mike in STL

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 01:46 PM

Double checked and included playoffs.

 

2020

Clowney - 8 games. 266 pass plays, 256 pass rushes. 28 pressures. 10.9%. 6.9% Run Stop%

Judon - 16 games. 411 pass play, 307 pass rushes. 46 pressures. 15.0%. 8.1% Run Stop%

 

2019

Clowney - 15 games. 467 pass plays, 447 pass rushes. 58 pressures. 13.0%. 9.8% RS%

Judon - 17 games. 519 pass plays, 419 pass rushes. 62 pressures. 11.9%. 8.2% RS%

 

2018 

Clowney - 16 games. 609 pass plays, 580 pass rushes, 63 pressures. 10.9%. 9.9% RS%

Judon - 17 games. 453 pass plays, 336 pass rushes. 46 pressures. 13.7%. 7.7% RS%

 

3 year totals

Clowney - 39 games. 1342 pass plays, 1283 pass rushes. 149 pressures. 11.6%

Judon - 50 games. 1383 pass plays, 1062 pass rushes. 154 pressures. 14.5%


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#22 Mackus

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 01:56 PM

I personally don't want either at this point. But guaranteeing health, it's not even a question. Clowney is by far the better overall player, it's not even close. I certainly wouldn't pay more for a lesser player, that's just terrible business sense. That's what teams like the Jets and Browns do.

 

But it requires that "guaranteed health" hypothetical to swing things in Clowney's favor.  However that is an obvious impossibility and he's about as severe of an injury risk as anybody in the sport.



#23 Mike in STL

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 02:01 PM

Aside from the recent drama, Judon will go down as one of the Ravens best draft picks. 5th round pick from a division II school. Role player year one. 2 pro bowls. 

 

34.5 sacks are 7th in franchise history. Dumervil is 6th at 35.5 in four years to Judon's five seasons. But everyone in the top five played more than five seasons. 6th in TFL, also everyone in the top five played more than five seasons here. Judon is second in QB hits behind only Suggs. 


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#24 Mike B

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 02:10 PM

Aside from the recent drama, Judon will go down as one of the Ravens best draft picks. 5th round pick from a division II school. Role player year one. 2 pro bowls. 

 

34.5 sacks are 7th in franchise history. Dumervil is 6th at 35.5 in four years to Judon's five seasons. But everyone in the top five played more than five seasons. 6th in TFL, also everyone in the top five played more than five seasons here. Judon is second in QB hits behind only Suggs. 

I think he may be one of the more underapreciated players too.  He has been a good player, albeit at times too emotional, but certainly a productive Raven.  I think the pandemic and the reduced cap costs him.  he is close to burning bridges which is unfortunate.


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#25 Biggsy

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 06:52 PM

I think he may be one of the more underapreciated players too. He has been a good player, albeit at times too emotional, but certainly a productive Raven. I think the pandemic and the reduced cap costs him. he is close to burning bridges which is unfortunate.

How is he underappreciated? Especially here. I could be mistaken, but I feel like I'm the only one that doesn't really think he's all that great. Everyone else seems more than happy to waste 15+ million a year on him.

I like him as a pass rusher, and I like his ability to do that from anywhere. But he is one dimensional. He isn't a good tackler. He isn't good at setting the edge. He isn't good in coverage. He takes plays off. And he can disappear for long periods of times, including full games. And he almost always seems to pop up for a stupid 15 yarder at the worst possible times. You don't pay guys like that $15+ million a year.

#26 Biggsy

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 07:04 PM

Your last statement is pretty much how I feel. I think Judon is slightly better than Clowney. Bottom line, I do not want to pay up for either and I think both are going to find it hard to get the $$$ they want.



As a pass rusher yes. As an overall player it's not even close. This isn't an opinion, or subjective type thing. Clowney has literally been a better overall player over their careers. Clowney is overrated as a pure pass rusher. But he's still good there. I say Judon is slightly better. But when it comes to everything else, especially playing the run, it's not even close. Clowney is great to borderline elite against the run. Judon is average at best to borderline just flat out bad. I know PFF isn't the end all, be all. But when Judon's best season rating (69.2), isn't even better than Clowney's worst season (74.9), it's pretty telling.

#27 Mike B

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Posted 26 February 2021 - 11:42 AM

How is he underappreciated? Especially here. I could be mistaken, but I feel like I'm the only one that doesn't really think he's all that great. Everyone else seems more than happy to waste 15+ million a year on him.

I like him as a pass rusher, and I like his ability to do that from anywhere. But he is one dimensional. He isn't a good tackler. He isn't good at setting the edge. He isn't good in coverage. He takes plays off. And he can disappear for long periods of times, including full games. And he almost always seems to pop up for a stupid 15 yarder at the worst possible times. You don't pay guys like that $15+ million a year.

I have not seen anyone, say that the Ravens should give him 15 M, per year.  I get it, you don't like Judon as a player.  JMO, he is a better player than Clowney, but I think he is badly over pricing himself.  I agree on the penalties, he is too emotional of a player at times.  He has been a good player and I would not be surprise to see his rush numbers tick up, if he goes to a team that utilizes him primarily for that purpose.


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#28 Biggsy

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Posted 26 February 2021 - 11:55 AM

I have not seen anyone, say that the Ravens should give him 15 M, per year. I get it, you don't like Judon as a player. JMO, he is a better player than Clowney, but I think he is badly over pricing himself. I agree on the penalties, he is too emotional of a player at times. He has been a good player and I would not be surprise to see his rush numbers tick up, if he goes to a team that utilizes him primarily for that purpose.


I dont hate him. I hate that he thinks he's worth more than he actually is. I think he's a good pass rusher. He makes splash plays. He offers phenomenal versatility. What I hate is that he thinks he's a top 10 edge rusher and should be payed as such. He isn't. I'd offer him $10-$12 million a year. Anything over that and you're wasting resources.

#29 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 26 February 2021 - 01:09 PM

I wonder how much the condensed salary cap will impact what guys are able to get? Sure, there are some teams with a ton of cap space but there's also a decent amount of clubs that are going to have to cut guys just to get under the cap.

A potentially depressed FA market, along with a higher than usual inventory of cap casualties could lead to some value.

We may be able to acquire a solid veteran or 2 on cheaper, short term deals. Time will tell.

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#30 Mike B

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Posted 26 February 2021 - 02:18 PM

I dont hate him. I hate that he thinks he's worth more than he actually is. I think he's a good pass rusher. He makes splash plays. He offers phenomenal versatility. What I hate is that he thinks he's a top 10 edge rusher and should be payed as such. He isn't. I'd offer him $10-$12 million a year. Anything over that and you're wasting resources.

100% agree with your last statement and FWIW   I feel like the same holds true for Clowney too.


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#31 ivanbalt

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Posted 26 February 2021 - 03:20 PM

Judon's a Raven so some trash team like the Jets will overpay in a second.


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#32 Mike B

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Posted 26 February 2021 - 03:54 PM

Judon's a Raven so some trash team like the Jets will overpay in a second.

The Jets have the money to do it.  So do the Jags and Colts.  Not many others.


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#33 Mike B

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Posted 26 February 2021 - 03:57 PM

Too much talk on Ngakoue and Judon, sign Bowser.


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#34 Mike in STL

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Posted 26 February 2021 - 07:03 PM

Too much talk on Ngakoue and Judon, sign Bowser.


I’d like Ngakoue back without over paying. Bowser they should definitely get done.
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#35 cprenegade

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Posted 26 February 2021 - 08:05 PM

I think in the end, Ngakoue and Judon will go.  Bowser they will get done.


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#36 Biggsy

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 11:01 AM

I think in the end, Ngakoue and Judon will go. Bowser they will get done.


And I think that's the right move. Bowser is a better overall player than either of them. Bowser may have been the most underappreciated player on the defense last season.
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#37 Mike B

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 04:06 PM

Bowser continues to get better, sign him to a 4 year deal


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#38 Steve55

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 08:23 AM

The problem could be too many teams may have also noticed Bowser and like him more than the other 2. Hope we don't need to bid on him.






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