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Balt Sun: Former Orioles outfielder Adam Jones still has Baltimore on his mind


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#21 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 11:33 AM

1) If the Orioles want to partner with Jones on legacy building / community aspects after he's retired... great, they should. They didn't need to work that into a contract for now.

 

2) You believe your could have crafted competitive teams in '19 and '20.  Great.  The Orioles did not.  Nor does anyone else.  At the absolute best, you would have created teams that were not good enough to actually win, and likely inhibited the Orioles chances of becoming actually good anytime soon.

 

3) The goal of a baseball team varies from year-to-year, market-to-market.  The '21 Orioles can not win the World Series. They can not win the AL East. They probably can't finish within 10 games of .500.  There is plenty they can accomplish this year though, with a starting point being further evaluation of the players who could potentially comprise the next quality Orioles team.  I'll happily watch them this year, and be glad the Orioles don't have Adam Jones on this team.



#22 Old Man

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 12:06 PM

100%, Ted Williams' last year as a manager his team ranked dead last in BA, OBP, SLG and homers

In fairness, before the team moved to Texas, Short raided the cupboards for drug addict and over the hill, Denny McClain.

 

He actually had a winning baseball team in DC, in 1969, and that wasn't easy, considering what was here when he arrived.



#23 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 12:22 PM

It's amazing to me how comfortable you are getting my position wrong.

1) I stand by the things I said in the link. I've posted a number of contracts on Jones going back to 2014-ish. The conditions constantly morph, so things do change. You don't like them, but the contracts are intentional on my part. When Adam Jones commits 30M, and the Orioles match it to building the "Adam Jones Youth Opportunity Center" in Baltimore, maybe you'd feel different about things. Maybe you're still evaluating WAR.

2) ...but that link was from 30 June. I'm not rebuilding. You continue to insist that there's nothing the Orioles could have done in 2019, 2020 and I'll continue to reject that. I think I can find some more direct language on my part where I say I don't want him for rebuilding. I wouldn't have been against having him, but the team conditions (he still has to be part of winning, regardless of how I feel about him in the community) changed dramatically from June to August to November. That contract was clearly not a "before he went to AZ" contract. That was a "before we decided to quit" contract. My opinion is that it didn't matter at that point, because the Orioles had already started to work to sour the relationship indirectly. Likely intentional to facilitate the separation.

3) The notion that somehow the goal of a baseball team is to get ABs for younger guys is ridiculous. There are no standings for that. Again (and again and again), the notion of 'tryout' is wrong. Yes, clearly, if Jones was getting 487 PAs, then some other player would not be getting those PAs. So what. If you were a competitive team, nobody cares. That's not anti- bringing young guys in, everything I want to do (or would want to do, I'm not part of it) would include young players.

You acquire, develop and plan the paths you want your most projectable players to take. That may not be right, it may change, different guys may emerge, but whatever you do, you are doing it inside a plan for Win Now and Win Later.

Including Adam Jones doesn't mean you can't have young players on the roster. His salary presence wouldn't prevent you from doing a single thing, ever**.

Again, to your last sentence where you try to link the positions that aren't linked. I didn't want him in rebuilding. I personally think that relationship was already broken and I think I say that in the link and acknowledge he's not coming back. Fine.

I'm not advocating for him in any role. I think it's interesting that he avoided the player angle in his response. I wouldn't make him the Manager or the GM. I think it's great that he is still contributing to the community and would continue that (more?) into the future, although I'd guess that's a fraction of the impact he could have, better resourced, as a Player on the Team.

If you're trying to compete from '19-23 its all the more reason why a below replacement level caliber player shouldn't be on the roster. Imagine being an 80-84 win team the last two years while having two roster spots held for Davis and Jones.

#24 Mike B

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 01:49 PM

I'd be cool with Adam involved in just about any capacity but I'm not sure if I'd love to see him as a manager just because it'd feel bittersweet to criticize him for bullpen management or lineup construction, whatever else are valid critiques of managerial strategy 

 

I feel like team legends managing/coaching their team goes poorly way more often than it ends happily 

I agree with this.  It seems like feelings get hurt, with people who have been legends in an organization.  Frank is a good example on the Orioles.


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#25 russsnyder

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 02:24 PM

I could be way off base, I doubt Adam Jones becomes a coach ( at least on the professional level) after he finishes up his vareer in Japan.

 

He has young children and he seems to be the type to be very involved with his family.

 

Maybe he develops a baseball academy type program program for inner city youth.


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#26 Mike B

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 03:44 PM

I could be way off base, I doubt Adam Jones becomes a coach ( at least on the professional level) after he finishes up his vareer in Japan.

 

He has young children and he seems to be the type to be very involved with his family.

 

Maybe he develops a baseball academy type program program for inner city youth.

I agree, I do not see Adam as a coach.  It may be similiar to Cal.  There was a lot of talk about Cal becoming a coach, manager or GM, but it seems like he never really pursued it, and dedicated his time into other baseball projects.

 

I can see Adam do the same thing.


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#27 dude

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 04:04 PM

If you're trying to compete from '19-23 its all the more reason why a below replacement level caliber player shouldn't be on the roster. Imagine being an 80-84 win team the last two years while having two roster spots held for Davis and Jones.

 

If you think you're making a point, you're not.  

 

I understand that you don't know what I'm talking about.  You don't understand that you don't know what I'm talking about.

 

You want to make the formula.....Performance = Talent 

 

That's not it. 

 

I didn't comment on your other post yet, but you keep putting stuff on my plan that aren't part of my plan.  Every time you ask a question, I answer it, but then you leave the discussion and come back later asking the same type questions. 

 

There is no difference in whatever I do/did in Win Now, that precludes me from being at the exact same (or better) spot that you are in Win Later.

 

You can't accept that because that means you've been duped and you don't want to believe that.  Sorry, they duped you.

 

I'm later leaving for a couple days, back later.



#28 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 04:37 PM

If you think you're making a point, you're not.

I understand that you don't know what I'm talking about. You don't understand that you don't know what I'm talking about.

You want to make the formula.....Performance = Talent

That's not it.

I didn't comment on your other post yet, but you keep putting stuff on my plan that aren't part of my plan. Every time you ask a question, I answer it, but then you leave the discussion and come back later asking the same type questions.

There is no difference in whatever I do/did in Win Now, that precludes me from being at the exact same (or better) spot that you are in Win Later.

You can't accept that because that means you've been duped and you don't want to believe that. Sorry, they duped you.

I'm later leaving for a couple days, back later.

Lol. Be safe. Take a week or a month.

#29 CantonJester

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 05:49 PM

2) You believe your could have crafted competitive teams in '19 and '20.  Great.  The Orioles did not.  Nor does anyone else.  At the absolute best, you would have created teams that were not good enough to actually win, and likely inhibited the Orioles chances of becoming actually good anytime soon.

 

3)  I'll happily watch them this year, and be glad the Orioles don't have Adam Jones on this team.

 

A couple things. Adam Jones would've been a good addition to a rebuilding team, or a team looking to provide mentorship to a very young roster. Chris Davis' contract likely nuked that common sense argument though. 

 

Another thing: you (and others) seem to have a personal grudge against dude. 

 

 

Lol. Be safe. Take a week or a month.

 

It's...Childish. 



#30 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 05:58 PM

A couple things. Adam Jones would've been a good addition to a rebuilding team, or a team looking to provide mentorship to a very young roster. Chris Davis' contract likely nuked that common sense argument though.

Another thing: you (and others) seem to have a personal grudge against dude.



It's...Childish.

Giving Adam Jones a 5/90 mil contract through '23 under any circumstances was beyond a foolish idea. Chris and others pointed out just how foolish it was at the time dude proposed it.

#31 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 06:01 PM

A couple things. Adam Jones would've been a good addition to a rebuilding team, or a team looking to provide mentorship to a very young roster. Chris Davis' contract likely nuked that common sense argument though. 

 

Another thing: you (and others) seem to have a personal grudge against dude. 

 

 

 

It's...Childish. 

 

I met Dude once, had lunch with him. Seems like a nice enough guy.  I don't 'know' him really beyond his screen name. 

I don't have anything against him personally, I just disagree with generally everything he posts. That part doesn't matter at all. Don't care that his opinions are different.  Can be good for discussion, and exactly what a message board is for. 

I do think he posts in ways that aren't great for the board though.  



Jones good for a rebuilding team? How?
Through leadership, mentoring, and example right? 

You've got to have players to mentor.  Players that will have a chance to be part of the next quality team.
The '19 team didn't really have those guys.  The '20 team had a couple.  The '21 team will have more. 

If Jones was still here... he'd be taking playing time from the guys you want to evaluate further, the guys who could be part of your next quality team. 

He was middling in Arizona in '19. 
He was middling in Japan in '20. 

We should be thankful he's not still here in an Oriole uniform imo.

 

But yeah... full embrace of Jones from the Orioles organization should happen as soon as he hangs up the spikes.
Whatever Jones wants to do, embrace it. 


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#32 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 06:03 PM

I've never once seen dude actually be open to another opinion. So I'm over it. But carry on.
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#33 russsnyder

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 07:45 PM

I met Dude once, had lunch with him. Seems like a nice enough guy. I don't 'know' him really beyond his screen name.

I don't have anything against him personally, I just disagree with generally everything he posts. That part doesn't matter at all. Don't care that his opinions are different. Can be good for discussion, and exactly what a message board is for.

I do think he posts in ways that aren't great for the board though.



Jones good for a rebuilding team? How?
Through leadership, mentoring, and example right?

You've got to have players to mentor. Players that will have a chance to be part of the next quality team.
The '19 team didn't really have those guys. The '20 team had a couple. The '21 team will have more.

If Jones was still here... he'd be taking playing time from the guys you want to evaluate further, the guys who could be part of your next quality team.

He was middling in Arizona in '19.
He was middling in Japan in '20.

We should be thankful he's not still here in an Oriole uniform imo.

But yeah... full embrace of Jones from the Orioles organization should happen as soon as he hangs up the spikes.
Whatever Jones wants to do, embrace it.

While I disagree with Dude on a number of topics and have have had running disagreements at times, I really don't have an issue with him or his style.

That said, I have no idea why it would have made any sense to sign Jones after the 2018 season. Quite simply, the Orioles
had a new GM and manager with virtually no ties to Jones who was a free agent. Jones also made it clear that he felt that he could still play regularly in the major leagues. That type of arrangement was not going to work for either side and it's probably helped keep the bridge back to Baltimore intact.
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#34 The Epic

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 09:23 PM

I wanted Jones on this team for purely selfish reasons. But even then, I know that they would have been headed face-first into a messy divorce by year three, had he gotten another contract.

 

I know nothing about him but it just feel like an "Ambassador to the Game" role would be great for him. Getting kids into the game from the ground up, sharing his opinion on big issues when prompted. Things that don't necessarily involve being a member of the Orioles organization.



#35 Old Man

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 08:23 AM

I agree, I do not see Adam as a coach.  It may be similiar to Cal.  There was a lot of talk about Cal becoming a coach, manager or GM, but it seems like he never really pursued it, and dedicated his time into other baseball projects.

 

I can see Adam do the same thing.

Cal said at one point, before his divorce and his kids old enough to leave the nest, that he couldnt see his being away from the family and traveling with the team, was a major drawback. He said he could envision himself in some type of FO position.

 

My own comment, the Orioles never seamed the least bit interested. 



#36 weird-O

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 09:01 AM

A couple things. Adam Jones would've been a good addition to a rebuilding team, or a team looking to provide mentorship to a very young roster. Chris Davis' contract likely nuked that common sense argument though. 

When the rumors were swirling abound, that AJ may be traded to Philly, he was silent (because he's a smart businessman). What we later found out, was that he used his 10/5 veto power to block the trade. When asked why, he specifically said that he wasn't moving to another team, just to be a mentor. Clearly he wasn't ready to move into that stage of his career. He saw himself as a fulltime player, not a coach in training.

All the compliments showered on AJ, are well deserved. But Dude's extension proposal failed to take one very important variable into account. The player wasn't interested in being a mentor, at that time. And that is essentially what Dude was paying for. So if we remove that from the equation, we are actually talking about giving a significant extension, for significant money, for his playing skills. Playing skills that were in dramatic decline. 

 

I was very disappointed to see AJ leave the O's, and even more disappointed when he left for Japan. But his time in Baltimore was done.   


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#37 Ravens2006

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 05:48 PM

Not saying any of this from a hard core "they should have kept him" standpoint. But I don't think his presence on the roster (alone) in 2019 would have had ANY negative impact on the development prospects of ANY younger player in the system. And only infinitely more chance of that in 2020. From here on out... Maybe... But remains to be seen based on who they choose to put in the major league lineup every day.
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#38 Slidemaster

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 10:14 AM

Adam Jones is my favorite Oriole of all time. Loved the character, personality, and his peak was damn good. I expect, and hope, that he will be a cornerstone of the organization in some capacity one day.

I wonder about what kind if manager he would be. Is he one of the players who has pooh-poohed analytics before? Would he be more old school? I really have no idea.

#39 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 10:30 AM

Adam Jones is my favorite Oriole of all time. Loved the character, personality, and his peak was damn good. I expect, and hope, that he will be a cornerstone of the organization in some capacity one day.

I wonder about what kind if manager he would be. Is he one of the players who has pooh-poohed analytics before? Would he be more old school? I really have no idea.


I don't think he was high on analytics.  Which would be okay, as long as he was receptive to listening, and comfortable with the information the Front Office provided. 

He played with an old school intensity (cleats up, hard slide into 2nd). Posted everyday.  Professional.  Strong demeanor. Lots to like on the character side. 


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#40 Slidemaster

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 11:59 AM


I don't think he was high on analytics. Which would be okay, as long as he was receptive to listening, and comfortable with the information the Front Office provided.

He played with an old school intensity (cleats up, hard slide into 2nd). Posted everyday. Professional. Strong demeanor. Lots to like on the character side.

I agree. He also seems very smart. I think he'd connect very well with younger players as well.

No manager does everything excellently. If he did want to manage, I hope they would surround him with a staff that complemented his weaknesses. Analytically driven coaches could assist that. I think there needs to be a balance of analytics and old school logic/eye test in a baseball dugout.
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